RWS Esoteric or Exoteric?

Beenn using this.

Been thinking.

It's a fortune tellling deck.
Anything exoteric is just chucked in because Waite liked to tweak people by knowiing secrets they didn't and dropping hints too let them know that he knew and they didn't.

Quite liike it these ddays, though.

I think it's both. The RWS is one of those happy accidents that happens sometimes that (almost) everything works so well. Whether Waite had a hand in the Minors or not, Court placements, etc., those are just nitpicks, but the deck does manage to masterfully blend the esoteric with the exoteric. This may be a case of confirmation bias on my part, the deck being so ubiquitous, but I personally think it is quite marvelous in the way it manages to put forth esoteric ideas exoterically.

It's like the Beatles. Alone each is talented in their own way, but their solo careers show that it is only when they are combined that the magic happens. Waite and Smith really did do something quite amazing, whatever criticism I have toward the deck.

I am mostly a "Tothie" but I agree that Waite put a lot of esoteric knowledge into the deck - if you have the eye to see it (or good literature on this). I received the Gigante version just yesterday; the cards are way oversized for shuffling and readings (at least for my hands and table, respectively) but perfect for contemplation.

LRichard said:

"The allocation of a fortune-telling aspect to these cards is the story of a prolonged impertinence."
[Pictorial Key to the Tarot by A. E. Waite, Part III, Section 3]​

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Lol. So typical.

Half the book is how to use the deck for fortune telling, the rest is vague hints about all the hidden secrets that he can't or won't tell.

Of course there is loads of ztuff in there, Symbolds and stuff. 30 years of the thoth and I do notice the odd thingy here and there.
But that's not the point, my impression is that the primary purpose of this deck was not to reveal hidden symbols or occult truths, but to produce a fortune telling deck to be sold to tbe general public. Who Waite seemed to think were not fit to be trusted with esoteric matters.

Does its job well, though.

See PKT Part II Section I:

Exactly.

That's just what I mean.

Thank you.

Lillie said:

But that's not the point, my impression is that the primary purpose of this deck was not to reveal hidden symbols or occult truths, but to produce a fortune telling deck to be sold to tbe general public. Who Waite seemed to think were not fit to be trusted with esoteric matters.

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I think it depends on your definition. The system, such as it is, seems to work, but it is still a symbolic system that represents real things. The Thoth may be a more theoretical representation of those ideas, while the RWS could be thought of as a demonstration of them, but they're still the same ideas. That one deck expresses itself more abstractly is a testament to its own style.

It's like some looking with wonderment at the stars and translating that into obscure mathematical formulae in a book about astronomy. My wonderment as a layman and the astronomer's wonderment are the same, except I will simply say "durrr, that's purty." They're still the same stars, though. Phenomena exist independently of any description of them.

closrapexa said:

.......It's like some looking with wonderment at the stars and translating that into obscure mathematical formulae in a book about astronomy. My wonderment as a layman and the astronomer's wonderment are the same, except I will simply say "durrr, that's purty."......

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Indeed, as Albert Einstein said:

This discussion reminds me of the promotional blurb for some book of the other about it, possibly by Goodwin/Katz, in which it said something like "finally it will be revealed whether the RWS is a kabbalistic deck." Well, duh, of course it is. It's one thing to say something like that if you've never studied the material, but anyone who has should be able to see many connections. Of course, none of it constitutes proof, but when the coincidences begin piling up, it becomes overwhelmingly obvious.