Relocation charts and Progressions

franniee

dadsnook2000 said:
I would suggest you get a very good (thick) book by a respected author on how to do prediction. My first book that covered many of those methods was by Margaret Hone --- probably printed in the 1960's or so. A more recent book is by Celeste Teal, Predicting Events with Astrology which compares several popular methods. There are several books covering Solar Returns, one is by Lynn Bell called Cycles of Light.

These are all of the standard approaches, none of which I use. My book will be out in early 2011. All in all, we could illustrate any of these methods easily, with lots of time and posting, but it would be more productive for you to purchase some books and devote several weeks to study and charts to find the methods that work for you. Dave

Thanks Dave! I think I've avoided the thick books }) but that is exactly what I need - thank you! I would love to get yours too. So please let me know when it is published! You've always been a great teacher to me. :heart:
 

franniee

Minderwiz said:
Well both Dave and myself have done several threads or parts of threads using predictive techniques, sometimes we've looked at the same individual but used different techniques so that there's a combined approach.

However if Dave's agreeable we could try and do a 'sticky' which might help people progress. As you now realised there are several major approaches, nearly all of which have significant variants and many of which can also be relocated or use correction for precession. That gives an awfully large number of alternatives and would present a massive thread if done in detail.

It might be better to do a short guide to the main alternatives with some comments showing the variations and some authors/books as an addendum.

You might also do searches for:

Solar Returns
Secondary Progressions
Profections
Primary Directions
Transits

My thread on Traditional Approaches looks at how some of these can be used and Dave has done several threads on his techniques related to Precession corrected Solar Returns, which really ought to be read by anyone wanting to develop their Astrological knowledge. He's also written a book on the techniques.

Oh, as I don't take Pluto seriously, it holds no terrors for me LOL. Others of course disagree :)

AS for you my friend from the other side of the pond...... you might want to take my Pluto seriously. :laugh: LOL

I am going to do a bunch of searches and see where I net out. I am sure there will be more questions but I need to get a handle on the subject first.

I would love a stickie or even a short guide! You are right... I had no idea there were so many approaches.

Thank you both very much! :love:
 

dadsnook2000

Don't forget

Don't forget Solar Arc's. Dave
 

Minderwiz

dadsnook2000 said:
Don't forget Solar Arc's. Dave

:) No, I won't :)

They do need a mention, as they are now widely used. I've got Noel Tyl's book but like Dave and some of the books he mentions, I don't use them.

The advantage is that they are quite simple to understand, and are easier to use than secondary progressions - my concern, is that they are a simplification of what was already intended to be a simplification - secondary progressions being a means of avoiding the mathematical complexities of primary directions.

However for someone beginning to explore predictions, they are a technique to look at.
 

dadsnook2000

Solar Arcs

Solar Arc methodology appears to be simple -- it is in its concept, but it has subtleties that are not directly part of other predictive methods. A solar arc can be mathematically determined in several ways, all of which appear to be quite close in their results.

** One could determine the solar arc for their current/prior birthdate by using the Sun's position in the ephemeris for their birth date (either Noon or Midnight will do), then counting forward for the number of days equal to your years for the last birthday party you had. This will give you a solar arc. You advance every component in your chart by this value and then see what aspects and contacts occur between natal and solar arc progressed planets.

** Or you could cast your natal chart and a chart for "X" number of days later to get the difference in Sun travel distance. As above, add this value to every natal positional value to get your solar arc progression (it is actually called a "direction" and not a progression as it directs everything forward the same amount).

** Or you could use your Astrological program of choice, and choose one of several methods of Solar Arc advancement, each with its own small differences in terms of results.

Now, most astrologers who use Solar Arc methodology know that they can proportionalize the small amount of daily advance by the Sun to get a result applicable to a given day or week within the year.

Also, most astrologers who use Solar Arc methodology use the 90 degree wheel that was popularized by R. Ebertin for use with his classical book on midpoints, the Combination of Stellar Influences. As I have said many times, no astrologer is without this book and no student should study astrology without having this book at hand. The 90 degree wheel was developed as a chart form in which the circular chart is divided by 90 degrees, not 360 degrees. This results in every cardinal sign being laid over each other such that the first third of the circle represents Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn. The next third of the chart represents Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius, while the last third represents Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, and Pisces.

This type of chart provides plenty of space for marking the position of the planets very clearly and precisely. This is important because a clear plastic overlay is used which has a prominent arrow with degree markings noted that spread to both the right and the left increasingly from the arrow. Turning the arrow to any natal or solar arc directed chart component permits the eye to see which other planets are equidistant from the arrow or the planet that it is pointing toward.

Now, comes the role of the book, Combination of Stellar Influences, or CoSI. It defines the interpretive meaning for any pair of planets with another planet or chart angle at its midpoint. These book statements are quite precise and are often shockingly true although they are best "adjusted" to fit the many situations or life-contexts that are part of your everyday life.

As a predictive tool, the timing that they represent is often representative of a one or two week period. As Minderwiz pointed out, Noel Tyl has a book out that specifically addresses this methodology although many of his other books also address this methodology. Note also that Ebertin, the developer of this system as we now know it, has several books out on this method as well. They offer spectacular examples covering all walks of life. I learned this method when I was two months into studying astrology and immediately loved its clarity and application. It is rare to find other predictive systems that are as effective.
Dave
 

Minderwiz

Well the beginner can quite easily simply use the mean solar arc to get used to the method and later on can consider that the mean is an average (not the only one) and can begin to look at variation within the Sun's annual movement and decide exactly how this should be applied (if at all).

I don't want to enter an argument here but simply make the point that it depends what approach to Astrology you use as to how much weight you place on Ebertin. If you haven't made up your mind or have decided to follow a Modern path, then Dave is right, you should look at Ebertin and his ideas and methods.

I have looked at mid-points (at least the Modern versions) and the 90 degree dial and to be honest I didn't find them helpful but by then I had already rejected much of the twentieth century approach. It's obviously perfectly possible to be a serious Astrologer not to use Ebertin, or indeed any Modern approaches, as Astrology existed quite well before him and indeed before the Twentieth Century, despite the claims of Leo and subsequent Astrologers that what went before was 'superstition'.

Now I'm not saying here that Modern Western Astrology is wrong, merely that it is not the only valid Astrology (and for that matter neither is what we refer to as Traditional Astrology). I am making a personal observation, as is Dave.

So if you are new to Astrology and want to know more, then it is imperative that you look at Ebertin and the other greats of the Twentieth Century such as Rudhyar, Carter, Addey or Mayo (and that list is not exclusive) but it is also imperative that you look at it's history and the greats such as Lilly or Morin or even the 'Arab' great such as Ibn Ezra, and Mash'allah. plus Hellenistic and Roman Astrolgoers such as Dorotheus and Manilus (again that list is not exclusive).

What I'm trying to do is to point out the infinite variety of Astrology but also the need to try and chart a course through it. Deciding on your own personal approach becomes important because a 'mix and match' or cobbled together approach leads ultimately to failure. In order to make that choice you need to learn both past and present and find a method that appeals to and fits with your own approach to life but also is a coherent and internally consistent use of serious Astrological thought, whether Modern or Traditional (or Vedic or other).

The point becomes important when you start to look at predictive methods, some techniques will work well for several approaches (such as transits or Solar Returns), some have variants that are designed to work with modern approaches (such as Primary Directions) and some are one or the other, such as Solar Directions.
 

franniee

Thanks Guys! :heart:

Let me digest all of this stuff...... :D