MN Planetary Society: Astrological signs shifted by celestial mechanics

Ffortiwn

Terrible articles IMO, but interesting claims. Probably nothing new here as I recall having heard this kind of thing before, but I wonder if the resurfacing of this idea in the media is actually based on any new findings or observations? (Not very clear from the articles.)

Looking forward to seeing reactions & feedback here. (Via FT Daily Roundup)

Edit: Adding the Fox article.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/11/age-aquarius-actually-age-capricorn-thanks-rotation-earth

Age of Aquarius Actually Age of Capricorn, Thanks to Rotation of the Earth
By Jeremy A. Kaplan
Published January 11, 2011 | FoxNews.com

Brace for the worst: You may be a Virgo, scientists say.

There are many newspapers and websites that promise to tell your fortune, detailing where the planets were when you were born and what their future movements suggest about your future. It's called astrology, and whether or not you believe in it, you won't believe this: It's all wrong.

Astronomers with the Minnesota Planetarium Society have dropped a bomb on the zodiac, noting that thanks to the millennia-long effect of the moon's gravitational pull on the Earth, there's about a one-month bump in the alignment of the stars. The result?

"When [astrologers] say that the sun is in Pisces, it's really not in Pisces," Parke Kunkle, a board member of the Minnesota Planetarium Society, told the Star Tribune.

And if the sun isn't in Pisces, YOU'RE not in Pisces. Surprise! You're an Aquarius!

Much of astrology -- called an ancient and complex system that uses math and science to predict the future -- relies upon careful observation of the heavens. And your astrological sign is based on the date of your birth, something that was tied very tightly to the position of the heavens back in Babylonian times.

"When someone asks you what your sign is, they're referring to your Sun Sign -- where the sun was in the Zodiac at the exact moment of your birth," explains the website of noted astrologer Kelli Fox. As the years have worn on, the position of the heavens has shifted ever so slightly -- but those signs haven't.

Could this be true? Is an Aries really a Cancer -- or worse yet, a Virgo? It's a question for Paul the Psychic octopus, of course. But sadly, the soccer-predicting sea creature died last year. So we asked Kunkle for clarification.

"Ever since astrology began back in 3000 B.C., we've known there were problems with it," he said with a chuckle. "The ancient Babylonians had 13 constellations, for example, so they just threw one out."

Ophuchicus, or the snake holder, was ejected from the charts when the Zodiac was codified at the 12 we know of today, to align it more accurately with the calendar. And Libra didn't come into things until Julius Caesar's time, Kunkle told FoxNews.com.

Seeing stars yet? It all comes down to the 26,000-year precession of the planets through space, he said, noting that a variety of gravitational forces have changed the position of the planets in the sky over time.

Bottom line, the astrological forecasts we've all been turning to may -- gasp! -- not be accurate at all, or at least they may be intended for other readers.

"We're off by about 10 degrees or so, a twelfth of the way around," Kunkle said.

Indeed, most horoscope readers who consider themselves Leos are actually Cancers, explained the Star Tribune. So instead of being courageous, natural-born leaders, they actually are sensitive and emotional -- ruled by moodiness, not innate rulers.

And those folks who have for decades considered themselves Sagittarius, the sign governed by the truth-seeking archer and ruled by Jupiter, are actually Scorpios -- stubborn, passionate people ruled over by Mars and Pluto.

So read with a grain of salt when Sally Brompton advises the Aries that January’s midheaven Solar Eclipse will move you closer to a long-term goal, or that you must keep a sense of perspective, and be prepared to change course in midstream if necessary. Your real sign may just be Pisces, and her real forecast advises you that some mountains can be moved and others very definitely cannot -- your predicament this year is to try to distinguish between the two.

And Capricorns, rejoice! NO need to worry about over-reacting to pressure from the powers that be, as Brompton warns. Instead, turn to the forecast of Aquarius, and know that a major conjunction between wealth planet Jupiter and changes planet Uranus means fundamental adjustments to the way you handle your finances are likely this year.

But whatever you do, keep this in mind: All signs point to fulfilling and rewarding year. For Geminis, anyway.

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/style/113100139.html?elr=KArksUUUoDEy3LGDiO7aiU

The stars might not actually be aligned in your favor

What's your sign? Probably not what you think, thanks to the Earth's "wobble."

By BILL WARD, Star Tribune
Last update: January 9, 2011 - 3:00 PM

A recent Harris Poll found that 31 percent of Americans believe in astrology. They're wrong -- although not necessarily in the way their detractors might cite.

The ancient Babylonians based zodiac signs on the constellation the sun was "in" on the day a person was born. During the ensuing millenniums, the moon's gravitational pull has made the Earth "wobble" around its axis, creating about a one-month bump in the stars' alignment.

The result?

"When [astrologers] say that the sun is in Pisces, it's really not in Pisces," said Parke Kunkle, a board member of the Minnesota Planetarium Society.

Indeed, most horoscope readers who consider themselves Pisces are actually Aquarians. So instead of being sensitive, humane and idealistic, they actually are friendly, loyal and inventive.

Or not.

There is no physical connection between constellations and personality traits, said Kunkle, who teaches astronomy at Minneapolis Community and Technical College. "Sure, we can connect harvest to the stars," he said. "But personality? No."

Astronomers have pooh-poohed astrology from the get-go, but Kunkle hedged when asked if astrology can bring people to his science.

"Historically, people looked at the sky to understand the world around us," he said. "But today I don't think people who are into astrology look at the sky very much."

But they do look at horoscopes. And now they have an explanation for why a day might not have turned out exactly as predicted.
 

Ffortiwn

http://gawker.com/5732115/your-zodiac-sign-may-have-changed?skyline=true&s=i

Your Zodiac Sign May Have Changed

Astronomers have restored the original Babylonian zodiac by recalculating the dates that correspond with each sign to accommodate millennia of subtle shifts in the Earth's axis. Prepare to have your minds blown, all you people with easily blowable minds.

Here is the zodiac as the ancient Babylonians intended it—with the dates corresponding to the times of the year that the sun is actually in each constellation's "house"—according to the Minnesota Planetarium Society's Parke Kunkle:

Capricorn: Jan. 20-Feb. 16.
Aquarius: Feb. 16-March 11.
Pisces: March 11-April 18.
Aries: April 18-May 13.
Taurus: May 13-June 21.
Gemini: June 21-July 20.
Cancer: July 20-Aug. 10.
Leo: Aug. 10-Sept. 16.
Virgo: Sept. 16-Oct. 30.
Libra: Oct. 30-Nov. 23.
Scorpio: Nov. 23-29.
Ophiuchus:* Nov. 29-Dec. 17.
Sagittarius: Dec. 17-Jan. 20.

* Discarded by the Babylonians because they wanted 12 signs per year.

I was born a Virgo, and because that's the shittiest sign in the zodiac, I have long refused to believe in astrology and forbid my loved ones from believing in it, either. (My anal retentive need to destroy an entire worldview because I do not like my role in it is, I am told, part of my Virgo nature.) If I'm really a Leo, though, who knows. [Star Tribune, Fox News, WTHR via LadyE. Image via Shutterstock.com]

Send an email to Maureen O'Connor, the author of this post, at maureen@gawker.com.

Edit: Via MetaFilter
 

Minderwiz

Oh dear!!!

Please contact these idiots and tell them to read an Astrology book as they have no understanding of what they are talking about. They refer to a phemomenon knows as 'precession of the equinoxes' which applies to the constellations which lie as a backdrop to the Sun's path around the ecliptic. This path is known as the sidereal zodiac.

Western Astrology has always used (either explicity or by default) a zodiac based on the seasons of the year - the Tropical Zodiac. This defines the Aries Point (0 degrees Aries) as the moment of the Vernal Equinox in the Northern Hemisphere. The other cardinal points are the Summer Solstice (0 degrees Cancer) the Autumnal Equinox (0 degrees Libra) and the Winter Equinox (0 degrees Capricorn). These zodiacal points are defined by the seasons of the Northern Hemisphere NOT by the background constellations.

Approx 2000 years ago the sidereal and tropical zodiacs were virtually in line. However it is clear that horoscopic Astrology has a clear foundation in the seasons and that many ancient monuments, such as Stonehenge, were designed to identify one or other of these Cardinal points, probably for calendrical reasons.

As the two zodiacs diverged, Western Astrology continued to use the season as it's zodiacal basis. In India, Vedic Astrology continued to use the sidereal zodiac. Both are valid measures of the zodiac (though the sidreal version is a little bit more difficult to define precisely in terms of it's starting point). Virtually all US Astrologers (and indeed European and Australian Astrologers) use the Tropical Zodiac and those that are any good know that that is what they are using.

Idiots in the Murdoch press have no idea of what they are talking about or are trying to just poke fun (without good reason) at Astrology. If they have a feedback facility they should be told not to print rubbish.
 

Ffortiwn

Agreed. Are you interested in posting to MetaFilter, Minderwiz or anyone, where the thread is still fresh? That's generally a friendly site and people are still posting there.

I'm afraid this story is all over the internet now. It's very embarrassing, nothing but cheap potshots and distortions of the truth.

Why the sudden attention? (Christian Science Monitor)

The attention triggered by his interview with the newspaper has been "astounding." Kunkle, who teaches astronomy at Minneapolis Community and Technical College, told Livescience, He gave the interview at the request of [the Minneapolis Star-Tribune] to discuss precession, and the science he described is centuries old, he said. ... "Bombshell dropped?" Kunkle said. "Well, no, not really."
I suspect he did not sit down to that interview with an anti-astrology agenda. It sounds to me like he may have answered a question innocently (and inaccurately) and that his comment was then amplified and blown out of proportion by the media/internet.

I strongly agree with Minderwiz that someone should make an attempt to set the record straight. Not being an astrologer, I doubt that someone should be me. Here's some contact info for various people/papers.

You could start with the guy who started it, Paul Kunkle: phone: 612-659-6068, email: parke.kunkle@minneapolis.edu. I doubt he will say much more than "Oh, I see," but who knows, it could be a fruitful discussion at least.

The Star Tribune is probably a better place to start if you really want to fix things.


This is going to hit lots and lots of sites and papers soon (assuming it hasn't already) but here are a few more places/people that/who might respond well to feedback:

 

rachelcat

The Fox article is particularly egregious because the concept of the Age of Aquarius (or any astrological age) is BASED on precession. Ignorance at its best. But then researching something before writing an article about it is SO overrated these days . . .
 

AmethystEyes

UGH! This makes me angry! Ignorant! They are trying to tell me my Moon is in Libra and not Scorpio? ah ha ha ha

This is the problem with many people and Astrology and even Tarot and spiritual matters. Although it obviously connected to astronomy it's not something like Math. People believe it because they can see in themself and others what is true, not because someone "said so". Some things you cannot use Math or Science to "prove".....it just .... is.
 

Golden Moon

Aw crap, I'm a Sagittarius: Dec. 17-Jan. 20. :( Why couldn't I be an Aquarius instead?
 

Fame

Thank goodness for this forum. I knew a little bit about this sidereal v. tropical thing, but for some reason I didn't connect it with this recent spate of articles, because I only saw the headlines and all my friends posting the "new" zodiac birth data on Facebook. Now I feel much more in the know.

I have to admit I was a little surprised at how disturbed I was! I sincerely hope this thing doesn't get too out of hand, ha.
 

AmethystEyes

Fame said:
Thank goodness for this forum. I knew a little bit about this sidereal v. tropical thing, but for some reason I didn't connect it with this recent spate of articles, because I only saw the headlines and all my friends posting the "new" zodiac birth data on Facebook. Now I feel much more in the know.
:laugh: Facebook was how I learned too! Kinda funny since I study Astrology :p
 

Golden Moon

Ophiuchus: Nov. 29-Dec. 17.
Sagittarius: Dec. 17-Jan. 20.

Which do you pick if your birth date is in between both signs.