VeniceBards Ogham vs Hebrew Alphabet

beanu

Hi,
I'm starting this in the hoppe of coaxoing VeniceBard into a discussion of his mapping of the two alphabets (which is probably trivial) and thence to his Tarot interpretations.

He (she?) says that his system is based on the sounds and shape of the letters.

VeniceBard,
Lets start at the beginning
Aleph - A - the Ox

here is a good start for the hebrew - http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Aleph-Bet/Aleph/aleph.html

and from wikipedia -
"Ailm is the Irish name of the twentieth letter of the Ogham alphabet, ᚐ. Its phonetic value is [a]. The "Tree Alphabet" glossators identify it with the pine. The original meaning of the name is unknown. The Bríatharogam kennings all refer to the sound [a] and not to the name, either as the sound of a "groan", or to the Irish vocative particle, á. Thurneysen maintained that Ailm, Beithe was influenced by Alpha, Beta, but while beithe is an actual Irish word, ailm would have to be considered the only loaned letter name. The word is attested once outside a context of the Ogham alphabet, in the poem "King Henry and the Hermit",

caine ailmi ardom-peitet
which translates to

Beautiful are the pines which make music for me
Here the poet is most likely directly influenced by the "Tree Alphabet" manuscript tradition."

The Golden Dawn Attribution of Aleph is the Fool card.
From memory, the path associated with Aleph is from Kether to Chokmah.

Crowleys mnemonic is
"Truth, Laughter, Lust: Wine's Holy Fool! Veil rent, Lewd madness is sublime enlightenment."

VeniceBard has referred to his understanding of the tree of life, as a map of the psyche.
"As I see it, the Tree as usually mapped shows the structure of the psyche: 1, its sexless aspect (Uprightness itself); 2 and 3, its chaste male and female aspects; 4 and 5, its procreative male and female aspects; 6, their common goal (offspring); 7 and 8, its lustful male and female aspects; 9 and 10, their goal, on which they do not agree (9 months of gestation vs. what can be grasped in the 10 fingers)."

Personally, I put the card on the spheres, not the paths, and the Fool goes in Kether.

VeniceBard, how do you tie all this together?
 

venicebard

beanu said:
VeniceBard, how do you tie all this together?
(I’m a he: name’s Gary, glad to meet.)

The square-Hebrew shapes are a valuable corroboration of the original order of the twelve ‘simple letters’ specified in Sefer Yetzirah, which bardic tradition allows us to restore the original order of in spite of their being reordered in the Hebrew alef-bet: their shapes show the parts of the body referred to by their signs (samekh-head, tzaddi-throat, cheyt-shoulders, etc.). But in general they are a poor place to start.

The old Canaanite alef was an ox’s head and stood for motive power. But it is a specific type of motive power, in that its tree-letter is ailm the silver fir (or else pine), symbol of loftiness (fir limits outward growth of limbs to redirect energy upwards). So it is the motive power of lift along the axis of uprightness. This is apparent also from its Egyptian counterpart, the hieroglyph of an eagle (actually, the eagle-like Egyptian vulture), which rises to great height by riding a thermal: it must glide round in a circle else it will exit the thermal and cease to ascend. Thus the ox’s head here symbolizes the power that when confined to a circle (like fir’s limbs) turns the pump that lifts water up from the water table to where the crops are (the area of Canaan tending to aridity).

Alef’s trump, based in this one case on both Hebrew and bardic numbering, is I LeBateleur. This is obvious, now that we know the letter’s esoteric meaning (lift), for the most important skill of the stage magician is to levitate. Its number, one, means that in so doing the performer unites all present (his audience). So in addition to being lift, it is what rises above the crowd to attract its attention: for ultimately, alef or A is the doer in man—the psyche—and forms the creative beginning of the Word or Logos (AUM, as in “I am the alpha and omega,” to which one answers “Mmm”)—it ‘gets our attention’ (as in the sound of a groan or the Irish vocative particle á). It is also the creative beginning of the Word in the more general sense usually meant, namely letters or speech, being both the first letter of the alef-bet and the letter numbered one in both traditions.

Furthermore, alef is one of the three ‘mother letters’ specified in Sefer Yetzirah: alef, shin, and mem. The origin of this doctrine is that there are four wheels (seen by Ezekiel):

1) The wheel centered atop the head of standing Adam Qadmon (primordial, sexless Adam), which represents Unity and goes from up to out to down to in to up.
2) The wheel half its height, centered atop the head of seated Adam (us) and representing our surroundings, the lower half of which is manifested (ground) and consists of seven signs, the seven ‘double letters’ (P-T-K-R-G-D-B).
3) The wheel half its height, centered at the heart of Adam and representing the zodiac of the human form (the twelve ‘simple letters’).
4) The wheel half its height, which is the round of the womb whereby one enters physical existence.

The first three are mothers in that each has another wheel in its ‘belly’ or lower half. The first wheel is mem, or more precisely mem-sofit (mem’s final form); the second is shin; and the third is alef. Shin in this context is a shushing of the U of the Logos, AUM, so that from the physical world (the fourth wheel or womb of time, which one intones as the smile, “ee”) one ascends in a smooth sequence to the doer A (third wheel, intoned as “ah”), the thinker U (shin, the second wheel, intoned as “oo”), and the knower M (fourth wheel, intoned as “mm”). Doer, thinker, and knower are the parts of the self that deal, respectively, with the fleeting present, with what has finite duration, and with what is eternal (from Plato’s analysis in chapter 19 of The Republic).

As for Wikipedia, alef is not twentieth in ogham but rather sixteenth, the first of the five vowels that are kept at the end because vowels were once excluded from the sequence: in bronze age Scandinavia, what was used was ogam consaine, consisting only of the fifteen consonants. It is this omission of the fourth group of five, the vowels, that is indicated by the ‘missing’ fourth leg of the table in the trump (hidden behind the mountebank’s own leg).

Now: bardic numeration was only preserved for 0-16, but 17-21 are easy to reconstruct, using number logic, tarot trumps, and the two extra letters hypothesized by Robert Graves in The White Goddess, Aa (ailm as ‘palm’) and Ii (mistletoe, ixias in Greek), these two bringing the number of letters from the 20 of ogham up to the 22 of Hebrew. Since Ii is the mistletoe (or loranthus, possibly), a ‘tree’ that grows from other trees rather than from soil, it is obviously Hebrew yod, which hovers above the line on which we write, unlike any other letter. This means that I itself (idho the yew) must be zayin, which as Greek zeta, the initial of Zeus, represents the corruption of D by I or Y—a hardened I like our J! And since aleph is A, bardic Aa must correspond, by process of elimination, to teyt or theta, as indeed the shape of the letter confirms once we analyze what the palm symbolizes: location, location, location (i.e. the tropics, seen from the deck of a ship). Just so, teyt in old Canaanite is our heliport sign, which was the Egyptian ideogram for ‘place’.

Hence the complete sequence is:

0 (no number): H, corresponding to cheyt or eta.
1: A, alef/alpha; ailm, silver fir (or pine).
2: E, heh/epsilon; eadhe, quivering aspen.
3: I, zayin/zeta; idho, yew.
4: O, ayin/omicron; onn, furze.
5: B, beyt/beta; beth, birch.
6: M, mem/mu; muin, vine.
7: P, peh/pi; peith, water elder, in whose place ogham has Ng, ngetal, reed (or broom).
8: F, whose place (aries) is held by samekh/xi (even though Canaanite samekh was the same as Ng in ogam consaine), for reasons I will explain once we get to samekh and peh.
9: K, kaf/kappa; coll, hazel.
10: G, gimel/gamma; gort, ivy.
11: T, tav/tau; tinne, holly.
12: D, dalet/delta; duir, oak.
13: N, nun/nu; nion, ash.
14: L, lamedh/lambda; luis, rowan.
15: R, reysh/ro(sp?); ruis, elder.
16: S, shin/sigma; saille, willow.
[17:] U, vav/upsilon; ura, heather.
[18:] Q (Kk), qof/qoppa (later phi?); quert, apple.
[19:] Y (Ii), yod/iota; mistletoe [Gr. ixias] or loranthus.
[20:] St (Ss), tzaddi/san (later psi?); straif, blackthorn.
[21:] Aa, teyt/theta; ailm, palm.

The five at the end are determined as follows. Since A and I are 1 and 3, Aa and Ii are first- and third-from-the-end. Since Q is Kk and K is 9, Q (Kk) is twice 9, or 18. Since V is Roman numeral 5, U (V) is fifth-from-the-end, since B takes its more obvious place at 5. This leaves 20 to be Ss, and indeed straif the blackthorn signifies strife—it is the vanguard of the wood in reclaiming farmland, hence ‘the mother of the wood’ in French (La Mère du Bois)—which is 10 opposing 10 (that is, two opposing wills as to what the 10 fingers might grasp).

The trumps confirm all this. Star, 17, shows a naked woman mixing two fluids, heather being the bed of lovers’ trysts (vowel of summer and of love’s consummation), 17 being when one comes of age in Irish mythology. Moon, 18, shows a face taking refuge (from dogs) in the moon: apple is glossed ‘shelter of a hind’ in the Book of Ballymote. Sun, 19, refers to mistletoe’s being Virgil’s ‘Golden Bough’ (the term for alchemist in Keltic Britain, Pferyllt, is thought to be a corruption of the name Virgil). Judgement, 20, has a trumpet and shows pikes or spikes emerging from the smoke and dust of battle, as it represents the ultimate battle. And World, 21, signifies one’s location, as well as the laurels of victory (for which palm is often substituted).
Personally, I put the card on the spheres, not the paths, and the Fool goes in Kether.
I think the letter-to-path correlations of today's ‘Hermetic Kabbalah’ are probably correct, based on the order in which letters feed into the central Sefirah of Tiferet: gimel-heh-zayin-yod-lamedh-nun-samekh-ayin, or scorpio on the Cauldron (of the seven ‘double letters’), followed by scorpio through aries of the Egg (of the twelve ‘simple letters’), followed by the vowel of spring, the season to which this ascent of the back side of the zodiac leads. But I discovered this only a few years ago and have not yet had time to really analyze the paths (that is, it is still too early for me to say much concerning them). Letter-to-trump correlations that follow Hebrew letter-order are not correct, though. And I take Crowley with a grain of salt, since he was an utter charlatan in my estimation.

It is to the Sefirot that letter-trumps refer most directly, though, namely 1-10 versus first-through-tenth-from-the-end (21-12): this Tree and its reflection both emerge from 0 and meet in 11. This yields the situation referred to in the Lurianic doctrine of the ‘breaking of the vessels’, wherein 1-3 remain intact: 1-11-21, 2-11-20, and 3-11-19 all form coherent groups, which 4-11-18, 5-11-17, and so on do not. For 1-11-21 are all one thing—in relation to itself, in relation to one ten-fingered being, and in relation to two ten-fingered beings—while 2-11-20 are all numerological 2s (by digital sum) and 3-11-19 are all of +1 valence (meaning one available valence electron).

(I’ll bih bahk.)
 

beanu

So, you are saying that Aleph belongs on the path from Kether to Chokmah,
but should be attributed to the Magician, not the Fool ?
 

venicebard

beanu said:
So, you are saying that Aleph belongs on the path from Kether to Chokmah,
but should be attributed to the Magician, not the Fool ?
Yes. The paths normally are: alef 1-2, beyt 1-3, gimel 1-6, dalet 2-3, heh 2-6, vav 2-4, zayin 3-6, cheyt 3-5, teyt 4-5, yod 4-6, kaf 4-7, lamedh 5-6, mem 5-8, nun 6-7, samekh 6-9, ayin 6-8, peh 7-8, tzaddi 7-9, qof 7-10, reysh 8-9, shin 8-10, tav 9-10.

Now I have yet to thoroughly analyze the paths, as I abandoned dealing with them early on in my studies in order to concentrate on the letters themselves, their equivalents in the various other alphabets, how they relate to their trumps, and then of course on all the scientific ramifications of the pattern that evolved from the melding together of Jewish Merkavah and Kabbalah with Keltic bardic tradition. I did spend considerable time, however, contemplating the Sefirot themselves (meaning the Pips) and feel I understand their origin much better than the rabbis (may they be blessed). If I could get enough rabbis to study with me, it might transform Judaism: but who among them would accept lessons from a non-Jew? Oh well.

Anyway, let me know when it's time to move on to beyt.
 

beanu

Beyt, Go for it.

Personally, I think that I will probably want to do 5 or 6 of these to get an overall "feel", then review in more detail, and then move forward again. But thats just me.

BTW, I'm male - Don
 

venicebard

beanu said:
Beyt, Go for it.
Beyt in square-Hebrew represents a dwelling (being the pineal body ultimately, or dwelling of the active side of the knower—what stamps the fact of one’s self’s existence on Truth). But in old Semitic it pictures on the one hand the High Priest’s mitre or headdress and on the other a conical helmet.

For B is beth the birch, which means the birth of the year, since it is the first month (which begins at the winter solstice). Therefore, it is numbered 5—for the fact that what is first done at birth is to count the digits on hands and feet—and signifies blessing—as in its trump, V Pope, who holds one hand up in blessing. It is also the particular blessing of motherhood, since we see a mother’s arm enter the card from the right to present her twin suns (sons), the waxing year and waning year, to the Pontiff for his blessing. And as such, it is then also the ultimate martial ideal—the number of Mars in Asiyah or Coins being 5—since a mother defending her young is absolutely unyielding. Moreover, the meaning of beyt, ‘house’ or ‘temple’, also means ‘house of’ (meaning offspring of); and it refers also to the home being the mother’s primary domain.

In Tifinag, B was a shield (its Nordic name probably bukla, meaning ‘buckler’), both as martial ideal and the fact that infants need shielding. In Numidian, then, this changed to the sun symbol (circle with dot in middle); for Nordic Tifinag had the sun symbol at S, the beginning of spring, which is when the sun first appears in the far north, whereas in the related Numidian alphabet (though not in Libyan Tifinag itself) it moves to winter solstice, the birth of the year itself.

Birch, by the way, represents birth or infancy by its diminutive size, and blessing by its white bark, which also signifies the 'clean slate' of childhood innocence.
 

JordanO

This description of Beyt is wow... well startling to me. My only close study-buddy painted her own version of the High Priestess. She just did what came naturally, making no external references for it. Get this.

It's a slender woman walking in a wintery setting with a night sky. Around her are birch trees. There is a prominent tree on either side of her, and inside a little carved out nook in each tree is a candle, one green, another red. Surely this must be the twin suns/sons you're talking about! The green is the waxing year and the red is the waning year. ! Here's another funny factor: she has a lot of Irish blood down her mom's side, with some wise woman wisdom like herbalism, cooking etc. This just can't be a simple 'accident'.

Please feel free to continue... I think there's a few of us interested!
 

beanu

Beyt / Beth is associated by GD with the path from Kether (1) to Binah (3),
and associated with the Magician.
I take it you are happy with the location, but the card associated is card 5 the Hierophant.
 

JordanO

Ha! Good point. In my haste, I overlooked that not so minor detail. Ah, well, when I read the description I got excited. I was actually subconsciously thinking of the pre-GD tradition of starting with A=1=magician, and hence B=2=High Priestess. I guess in Venicebard's system this is not the case.

I still can't help but wonder how all those specific images would be translated on accident alone. A point could be made that the "mother" presenting the "sons" is indeed the same woman as the HP and Empress alike. It's been said that each character in the trumps is the same person undergoing the journey, the archetypal human (or its' components). I dunno! Carry on.
 

venicebard

JordanO said:
. . . Around her are birch trees. There is a prominent tree on either side of her, and inside a little carved out nook in each tree is a candle, one green, another red. Surely this must be the twin suns/sons you're talking about! The green is the waxing year and the red is the waning year. !
Certainly! the green of spring and the red of autumn (oak-king and holly-king, respectively, the latter with its red berries).
Please feel free to continue... I think there's a few of us interested!
In that case, I should explain that the symbolic meanings of the trees themselves were originally chosen to fit the meanings that spring from the letters’ actual positions on the 4 wheels (of Ezekiel’s vision). The four, each twice the height of its predecessor, are: that of the womb; that of the torso (alef in SY), which is the zodiac (where spring=up=head, fall=down=loins, etc.); that centered atop the head (shin in SY) when seated, and that centered atop the head (as mem-sofit, symbol of blood carried as high as it can go) when standing. The 2nd through 4th of these are the mothers—alef, shin, and mem-sofit, respectively—since each has a lesser wheel in its ‘belly’. But intermediate mem indicates the libra which mem-sofit’s wheel has in common with the other three wheels, making mem the ‘belly’ in Sefer Yetzirah, that is, the loins, or legs folded beneath one when seated (see below for the reason this is necessary). The four wheels are generated in the opposite order, though, beginning with the largest and proceeding to the smallest (and corresponding in order to the elements fire-air-water-earth).

The head contains the sense organs, so the wheel centered atop the head when seated is the surroundings these connect us to. But only its lower half (the ground) is manifest to us, and its 7 signs are the 7 ‘doubles’. This I call the Cauldron, and it goes from the outer horizon (all around us) to straight down (point where we sit) to the inner horizon (straight back towards self). Phonetically, the doubles occur on it (from without to within) in the order P T K R G D B; for it symbolizes the mouth, and so P and B are up on its rim or lip, K and G and R down at the gullet, R here being guttural r (in the throat). In the Keltic tree-calendar, though, R is rolled on the tip of the tongue and thus deserts its post, forcing the libra of mem’s wheel to also act as the Cauldron's libra: this ‘foreign’ non-guttural R is what leads to Hebrew intermediate mem being the ‘belly’ (libra, the loins, the lower end of the axis of the trunk).

Also, P and D trade places in the calendar: this is not purely arbitrary but rather symbolizes a very important aspect of the human condition, which I will make clear once we get to these letters.

So B the birch symbolizes that which cleanses or blesses because it is the direction straight in towards self, that is, the only direction on the wheel that is completely purged of all that is external to itself (a clean slate). Moreover, the atom whose atomic number is 5 is boron, whose ore is the cleanser or bleach (birch being white-barked) borax.
beanu said:
Beyt / Beth is associated by GD with the path from Kether (1) to Binah (3),
and associated with the Magician.
I take it you are happy with the location, but the card associated is card 5 the Hierophant.
Yes. Alef makes sense as the path connecting unity, 1, with division, 2, because as the trunk linking head shin with ‘belly’ mem (according to Sefer Yetzirah), it is the center of the doer’s wheel—the zodiac of the body or trunk—and the doer is the one trapped in thinking under the type of two that therefore needs to learn how to think under the type of one. And beyt signifies 1 infant, which involves, with its 2 parents, 3 individuals, thus connecting 1 with 3. This is the Tree of forms, and 2 and 3 here represent the chaste male and female aspects of the psyche or doer, the male 2 being the mere potential of combining the 2 sexes, the female 3 being the mere potential of offspring adding 1 to get 3.
JordanO said:
Ha! Good point. In my haste, I overlooked that not so minor detail. Ah, well, when I read the description I got excited. I was actually subconsciously thinking of the pre-GD tradition of starting with A=1=magician, and hence B=2=High Priestess. I guess in Venicebard's system this is not the case.
Jews and bards both make alef 1, but bardic numeration follows not alef-bet order but symbolic logic (as will become clear as we go through the letters). So B = 5 because it symbolizes birth or infancy, the stage at which we count digits on hands and feet, and the blessings of a clean slate, signified by the hand (of 5 fingers) the Pontiff raises in blessing.
A point could be made that the "mother" presenting the "sons" is indeed the same woman as the HP and Empress alike.
Perhaps it will gratify you to learn that 2 and 5 are simply reversed in bardic tradition: E or heh (the 5th letter) is 2, and B or beyt (the 2nd letter) is 5. This indicates they are closely related, as does the fact that they are Papess and Pape, I mean Pope.