The cards and your natal chart

celticnoodle

Myrrha, thanks for posting this! I'm not really that much into astrology per se, but my sister is REALLY into this. She finally convinced me to get my chart online at one of those online free charts sites. I found it pretty interesting how well it captured me--and so now sis & i are talking almost daily about our charts. I'm becoming more interested as a result. now, I'll have to go and pair up the cards to our planets just for more of an interesting discussion today. :)

If I remember correctly, my sun sign is in Libra, Moon is in Pisces and Ascendant is in Cancer-so....since I didn't see any cards listed in your first post to go with them, maybe I can find them on the site tarotlyn posted. off to check out the site tarotlyn posted.
 

Myrrha

Merenwen said:
That's what's so odd. It's Sagittarius as well I think. But I'm a cusp girl, and I think a lot is explained by that.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a192/Alexandriana/astro_w2gw_01_merenwen_hp57969322.gif

Wow, you have your rising sign and Mercury and your Sun all in Sagittarius. And all this in the first house which is supposed to be all about you and your personality, and yet you don’t feel like Sagittarius really fits you. That does seem odd. I didn't see any groups of planets in other signs than your Sun sign, or any difficult aspects to your Sun sign. It might be interesting to post about it in the astrology forum and see what the people who really know alot about astrology say.


The other thing is that the constellations that the signs were named for, Sagittarius and all the rest, have moved in the thousands of years since astrology was discovered. If you go back to astro.com I think you can get a chart made according to “sidereal” astrology which uses the actual constellations rather than the sections of the sky. It might be really interesting to look at that and see if you think it fits you better.

I am not really very knowledgeable about astrology. For a long time I didn’t look into it much because I don’t know what time I was born and you really need to know that to use the house system. I’m more interested in it now, partly because of tarot.

celticnoodle said:
If I remember correctly, my sun sign is in Libra, Moon is in Pisces and Ascendant is in Cancer-so....since I didn't see any cards listed in your first post to go with them, maybe I can find them on the site tarotlyn posted. off to check out the site tarotlyn posted.

Great! You should be able to find the Major Arcana cards for those and also the Court card that goes with your birthdate. It never occurred to me to look at the Major Arcana that goes with a rising sign but why not?

For people who think in pictures rather than concepts you could set up the whole chart with tarot cards. The signs all have Major Arcana cards and so do all the planets (scroll down after the chart for a list), even if you don’t have a Minor Arcana for that particular planet in sign combination like in my first post. So Moon in Pisces is like having the High Priestess (card that represents the planet Moon) in the Moon card (card that represents Pisces). No wonder you do those very intuitive readings, celticnoodle!

Some of them I have a hard time seeing the connection though, like the Chariot and Cancer. The energy of the Chariot, full of outward-facing drive and determination, never seemed to me to go with Cancer which is home oriented and nurturing. One deck, the Dragon Tarot, talks about a dragon mother searching for her lost dragon baby but in most decks it is hard for me to see the connection.
 

Myrrha

Astrology for tarot-heads

This astro placement in your chart -- is like this combination of cards

Moon in Aries -- High Priestess in The Emperor (meaning in the home or territory of the Emperor which sounds like trouble…)
Moon in Taurus --High Priestess in The Hierophant and Six of Disks/Pentacles
Moon in Gemini -- High Priestess in The Lovers
Moon in Cancer -- High Priestess in The Chariot and the Four of Cups
Moon in Leo -- High Priestess in Strength (or Lust if you have a Thoth)
Moon in Virgo -- High Priestess in The Hermit
Moon in Libra -- High Prisetess in Justice and Two of Swords
Moon in Scorpio -- High Priestess in Death
Moon in Sagittarius -- High Priestess in Temperance (Art if you have a Thoth)
Moon in Capricorn -- High Priestess in The Devil (hmmm, interesting!)
Moon in Aquarius -- High Priestess in The Star and the Seven of Swords
Moon in Pisces -- High Priestess in the Moon

Mercury in Aries -- The Magician in the Emperor
Mercury in Taurus -- The Magician in The Hierophant and Five of Disks/Pentacles
Mercury in Gemini -- The Magician in The Lovers
Mercury in Cancer -- The Magician in The Chariot and Three of Cups
Mercury in Leo --The Magician in Strength (or Lust if you have a Thoth)
Mercury in Virgo -- The Magician in The Hermit
Mercury in Libra -- The Magician in Justice
Mercury in Scorpio -- The Magician in Death
Mercury in Sagittarius -- The Magician in Temperance (or Art if you have a Thoth) and Eight of Wands
Mercury in Capricorn -- The Magician in the Devil (look out!)
Mercury in Aquarius -- The Magician in the Star and Six of Swords
Mercury in Pisces -- The Magician in the Moon

Mars in Aries -- The Tower in the Emperor and the Two of Wands
Mars in Taurus -- The Tower in The Hierophant
Mars in Gemini -- The Tower in The Lovers
Mars in Cancer -- The Tower in The Chariot
Mars in Leo -- The Tower in Strength (or Lust if you have a Thoth) and the Seven of Wands
Mars in Virgo -- The Tower in The Hermit
Mars in Libra --The Tower in Justice
Mars in Scorpio -- The Tower in Death and Five of Cups
Mars in Sagittarius -- The Tower in Temperance (or Art if you have a Thoth)
Mars in Capricorn -- The Tower in the Devil and Three of Disks/Pentacles
Mars in Aquarius -- The Tower in the Star
Mars in Pisces -- The Tower in the Moon and the Ten of Cups

Venus in Aries -- The Empress in the Emperor and the Four of Wands
Venus in Taurus -- The Empress in The Hierophant
Venus in Gemini -- The Empress in The Lovers
Venus in Cancer -- The Empress in The Chariot and the Two of Cups
Venus in Leo -- The Empress in Strength
Venus in Virgo -- The Empress in The Hermit and the Nine of Pentacles
Venus in Libra --The Empress in Justice
Venus in Scorpio -- The Empress in Death and the Seven of Cups
Venus in Sagittarius -- The Empress in Temperance (or Art if you have a Thoth)
Venus in Capricorn -- The Empress in the Devil and
Venus in Aquarius -- The Empress in the Star and Five of Swords
Venus in Pisces -- The Empress in the Moon

Jupiter in Aries -- The Wheel in the Emperor
Jupiter in Taurus -- The Wheel in The Hierophant
Jupiter in Gemini -- The Wheel in The Lovers and Eight of Swords
Jupiter in Cancer -- The Wheel in The Chariot
Jupiter in Leo -- The Wheel in Strength and Six of Wands
Jupiter in Virgo -- The Wheel in The Hermit
Jupiter in Libra --The Wheel in Justice (or Adjustment if you have a Thoth) and Four of Swords
Jupiter in Scorpio -- The Wheel in Death
Jupiter in Sagittarius -- The Wheel in Temperance (or Art if you have a Thoth)
Jupiter in Capricorn -- The Wheel in the Devil and Two of Pentacles
Jupiter in Aquarius -- The Wheel in the Star
Jupiter in Pisces -- The Wheel in the Moon and Nine of Cups

Sun in Aries -- The Sun in the Emperor and Three of Wands
Sun in Taurus -- The Sun in The Hierophant
Sun in Gemini -- The Sun in The Lovers and Ten of Swords
Sun in Cancer -- The Sun in The Chariot
Sun in Leo -- The Sun in Strength and Six of Wands
Sun in Virgo -- The Sun in The Hermit and Eight of Pentacles
Sun in Libra --The Sun in Justice (or Adjustment if you have a Thoth)
Sun in Scorpio -- The Sun in Death and the Six of Cups (this is a better fit for the Cosmic and Thoth decks than the RWS)
Sun in Sagittarius -- The Sun in Temperance (or Art if you have a Thoth)
Sun in Capricorn -- The Sun in the Devil and Four of Pentacles
Sun in Aquarius -- The Sun in the Star
Sun in Pisces -- The Sun in the Moon

Saturn in Aries -- The World in the Emperor
Saturn in Taurus -- The World in The Hierophant and Seven Pentacles
Saturn in Gemini -- The World in The Lovers
Saturn in Cancer -- The World in The Chariot
Saturn in Leo -- The World in Strength (or Lust if you have a Thoth) and Five of Wands
Saturn in Virgo -- The World in The Hermit
Saturn in Libra --The World in Justice (or Adjustment if you have a Thoth) and Three of Swords
Saturn in Scorpio -- The World in Death
Saturn in Sagittarius -- The World in Temperance (or Art if you have a Thoth) and Ten of Wands
Saturn in Capricorn -- The World in the Devil
Saturn in Aquarius -- The World in the Star
Saturn in Pisces -- The World in the Moon Eight of Cups





Tarot isn’t really astrology though. Mars is not the Tower. There is a correspondence and a similarity of energy but they aren’t the same exact thing. Saying Mercury in Capricorn is like the Magician in the Devil teaches me something about the cards and about that astrological placement but I wouldn’t take it to mean exactly the same thing.

Also, the correspondances come from the Golden Dawn but this business of looking at them this way, "The Tower in the Star" "The High Priestess in the Moon", I haven't seen this in any books and I don't think there is anything traditional about it. It is just a fun way to look at astrology in the language of tarot and vice versa.

It is fun though.
 

Merenwen

Myrrha said:
If you go back to astro.com I think you can get a chart made according to “sidereal” astrology which uses the actual constellations rather than the sections of the sky. It might be really interesting to look at that and see if you think it fits you better.

Now that's a completly different picture! http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a192/Alexandriana/astro_2gw_01_merenwen-sidereal.gif Not looked at it in detail yet to see what it means. Hmm *sneaks off to the astrology forum*

I like that list Myrrha, and you're right, it makes it fun. I'm also intending on taking out the Cosmic again, as I've noticed in the past that there are lots of symbols for the planets hidden in the cards. Just never had the drive to find out exactly what those symbols mean.
 

Merenwen

Right, I've done it. I may have missed some of the more hidden symbols, but I've been through all the cards.

Some are symbols, some are actual animals and as such I may have missed a few references.

Card - Planet & Sign
10 of Swords - Mercury & Gemini
10 of Wands - Saturn
3 of Swords - Saturn
4 of Pentacles - Sun & Capricorn
4 of Swords - Jupiter
6 of Wands - Jupiter
8 of Cups - Saturn
Chariot - Moon & Cancer
Emperor - Aries
Empress - Earth
Hermit - Sun + Jupiter & Virgo
King of Cups - Cancer
King of Pentacles - Capricorn
King of Swords - Libra
Moon - Pisces
Prince of Cups - Scorpio
Prince of Pentacles - Capricorn
Prince of Swords - Aquarius
Prince of Wands - Leo
Princess of Pentacles - Taurus
Queen of Swords - Mercury & Gemini
Queen of Wands - Sagittarius? (an archer on a tower, so I'm not too sure on this one)


Interesting that some of them do correspond, with some additions. Just because I haven't found all the references, doesn't mean to say the don't exist. The LWB has Golden Dawn as further reading suggested, so I suspect they will be there.
 

Myrrha

Merenwen said:
Interesting that some of them do correspond, with some additions. Just because I haven't found all the references, doesn't mean to say the don't exist. The LWB has Golden Dawn as further reading suggested, so I suspect they will be there.

That is so great that you went through the deck and found all that! Astrology is really the key to this deck.

Yes, you're quite right the Golden Dawn's "Book T" has this information. Here is a link to a pdf
http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/gd/t.pdf
If you look on page two there is a chart that shows all the minor arcana astrological references.

There is a study group in the Golden Dawn subforum of the Thoth forum that is looking the Golden Dawn astrological basis for tarot and you might enjoy those threads as well.

Some of the astrological references are a little hidden in the Cosmic Tarot, For example the Four of Wands is Venus in Aries and there is a dove-like bird flying (a dove is one of Venus' main symbols) and a spiral on the ground that looks like a ram's horn. Many of the cards don't seem to have specific visual references at all, but maybe I just haven't found them all yet.

You're right the Princess of Pentacles has horns on her headband like Taurus and there is a horned animal of some kind in the background. Still, the deck does seem to follow a pattern where the Kings each represent one of the Cardinal Signs, the Princes represent the Fixed Signs (Taurus is the Fixed earth Sign), and the Queen's represent the Mutable Signs. I'm not sure why the artist then goes and puts Taurus symbolism on the Princess of Pentacles as well as on the Prince. Maybe both cards represent Taurus. Usually though the Princesses represent the element and don't represent a Sign.

Another reason I would put the Prince of Pents as Taurus rather than Capricorn (besides that it fits the Cardinal/Fixed/Mutable pattern) is the symbol of Venus on the pole in the background. Venus is the ruler of Taurus.

Here is a link about Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable signs. (By the way your Sun sign, Sagittarius, is a Mutable Sign).
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TheSigns.htm

You can look at the kinds of qualities associated with each sign and it tells you about the personality of the court card. Notice the King of Wands has a sort of staff with a ram's head in the background (Aries) and the Queen of Cups has Pisces fish on her fan. I think you are right about the Queen of Wands, the archer represents Sagittarius, the Mutable Fire Sign.


A few more astrological symbols in the cards: the lion in the Six of Wands is a symbol of Leo. The caduceas (snakes twining on a pole) in the Six of Swords is a symbol of Mercury. The symbol on the woman's belt in the Three of Wands is like an Aries glyph upside down and she has a Sun glyph on her headband. The dove in the Four of Wands is a symbol of Venus, the ram's horn in the same card is a symbol of Aries. Queen of Pentacles has a Virgo glyph on the top of the tower. I had to use a magnifying glass but it is there.

--Myrrha
 

Merenwen

See, I knew I hadn't found them all :p

Some of the ones you mention I did see, and they are written down to look up what they mean.

Also, the Princes and Princesses have the symbols for the elements on them. I think it's a bit mixed which one of the 2 has it, but they are there, normally as a form of jewellery or embroidery.