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The Importance of Birth Time... !!!

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The Importance of Birth Time... !!!


Time of Birth ... I knew it was relatively important, but I didn't know it had the potential to change the position of your moon and your ascendent -- two very powerful factors (I think) in the astrological chart. In fact, the more I'm learning about astrology, I am realizing that the ascendent is known as the "gatekeeper" of the expression of the other planets/signs/aspects, and is pretty much one of the most , if not the most important, placement on your chart.

Yet, I am astounded at how much mine shifted when I tried a different birth time. You see, I always had an idea around what time I was born. I always thought it was 5:00 pm, more or less. But the other day I asked my father, and he seemed to think it was around 3:30ish pm. For years I've always had my chart calculated with the latter of the two times. And this resulted in a moon in cancer, and ascendent in scorpio. Today, for the first time, I calculated with the 3:30 pm time -- and with this time my moon becomes a moon in gemini (!!!) and my ascendent then appears in libra (again, !!!)

This to me seems more fitting then the cancer moon, scorp ascendent -- even though for years I was aligning myself with those as definitions.

Now, I find this odd that the birth time -- something that I've heard even the most "wisened" of astrologers not put too much emphasis on. Now why would they do that? Would this be because they still want to "read" for you (for those that sell their skills) or because they don't want you to feel "left out" if you don't know your birth time? To me, it seem this is a crucial part of information -- and although it may only effect the more faster-moving of the planets, they are some of the more "important" ones.

Thoughts? Do many of you know your exact time of birth? For those of you who calculate charts... what do you do when a client knows everything (date, location) but the birth time? Do you feel you can still get an "accurate" read, even lacking or perhaps mis-laying the ascendent?

I hope this post makes sense, and is not just a ramble. I've been sitting in the sun all day, attempting to teach myself astrology...

thanks in advance, joya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joya250
....Thoughts? Do many of you know your exact time of birth? For those of you who calculate charts... what do you do when a client knows everything (date, location) but the birth time? Do you feel you can still get an "accurate" read, even lacking or perhaps mis-laying the ascendent?
I hope this post makes sense, and is not just a ramble. I've been sitting in the sun all day, attempting to teach myself astrology...
thanks in advance, joya
Hi Joya. I am not a professional Astrologer, but I am perpetual Astrology student; learning more each day....as you are. I have been studying since I was 17, off and on; with the most intense focus being just over the past 5 years. IMHO Birthtime is an essential piece of information to reading a chart. In my case, the moon was transitioning into Libra the day I was born. However, because I was born at noon it was still in Virgo. As you have already revealed from your chart, even a couple of hours can make a huge difference. I was blessed to have a mother that told me all while growing up that I was born at noon on the dot, not because she understood astrology but because she thought is was so unique to be born right at noon on the nose.
I think it would be intensely frustrating not to know your birthtime for certain. For years, I didn't know my dad's birthtime. However, after he died we began investigating. We were actually able to get it from some archived records from the hospital he was born at. Sadly many US states don't include the time on the birth certificates....a practice I don't understand.
As far as getting an accurate read, I think some of the very well studied Astrologers may be able to come pretty close; however that is beyond me at my level of study to this point.
I have tried with my mother-in-law, as she doesn't know her birthtime. The moon was of course changing signs on her birthdate, so we sat down and talked about her life and the energies of the signs. We came to the conclusion that she is an Aquarius moon, not a Capricorn moon based on her own identification with the energy of the Aquarius moon. This was not a scientific process, but the best we could do under the circumstances.

LONG story short....I believe BIRTHTIME is essential.

Blessings,
Indigo Rose
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The article linked below sums up quite well the relevant issues:

Resolving Unknown Birth-Time Problems
http://www.elbertwade.com/page43.html
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I recently tried to find out my partner's birth time by contacting the hospital. Some five emails later, they told me that they only started keeping birth time records about five years after he was born.

So, if you don't know the birth time, should you just look at the characteristics of each of the ascending signs and try to match them the best you can to their personality?

Or, is there a better method?

Many thanks,

purple_scorp
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Speculative birth time


When an accurate birth time is not known it is sometimes possible to find a workable birth time. This requires work for both the astrologer and the client. While you can start the process with just speculating about which Ascendent sign you identify with -- the Moon isn't always changing signs that day -- that alone may lead you down false trails. These are some of the considerations to explore:

1) List out the Sun, Moon, MC and ASC sign-degree position of family members. We tend to have some of our Sun-Moon-MC-ASC positions at or near theirs. For example, Moon at/near mother's ASC. Pay particular attention to the positions of anyone you feel either close to or who exhibits similar traits as yours.

2) List important dates in your life. Then, A) check the ephemeris to see where the planets were on those dates and list them out. B) check to see if any of those positions for those several dates were at/close to the Sun-Moon-MC-ASC positions of family members.

3) Using any clues from the above steps, calculate a chart which places those sign-degree positions of interest at the Sun-Moon-MC-ASC for your tentitive chart. Do several charts if that seems likely. Which feels right?

4) Take the one or few charts that seem most likely and test each of them with a choice of A) transits for those significant event dates, B) secondary progressions for those significant event dates, or C) precession corrected Solar Returns and intermediary PSSR charts for those significant event dates.

As you can see, this is an involved process. It takes time, dilligence and care. I don't know of any reliable short cut. And the answer may not be correct -- but it may provide a workable chart. Don't underestimate the value of links to family member charts. Dave.
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Hi Dave,

thanks for that very detailed explanation. I am happy to say that I understood all of what you wrote (but don't think my astrological skills are currently at the stage to be able to perform some of those suggestions, and that is indeed why there are professional astrologists).

There is also a slight problem associating his chart with other family members (because he doesn't even know his mother's birthday, let alone the time she was born etc).

But, you've given me a good starting point, so thanks. I'll see what I can come up with.

with love
purple_scorp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joya250
Now, I find this odd that the birth time -- something that I've heard even the most "wisened" of astrologers not put too much emphasis on...
As a professional astrologer, I always emphasize the importance of the birth time -- preferably from a birth certificate. I can't imagine any "wisened" astrologer not doing so. I make it very clear to clients that I cannot provide a complete, accurate birth chart without an accurate time of birth.
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Exclamation


Quote:
Originally Posted by dadsnook2000
When an accurate birth time is not known it is sometimes possible to find a workable birth time. This requires work for both the astrologer and the client. While you can start the process with just speculating about which Ascendent sign you identify with -- the Moon isn't always changing signs that day -- that alone may lead you down false trails. Dave.

Okay, that would explain why when I generated a chart on astro.com for a friend of mine it gave her moon sign as gemini. She didn't know her birth time and after reading the initial post I was hoping I didn't give her wrong information!
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When is a moon not a moon?


For many charts there may be non-moon factors that lead us to think that a person with an unknown birth time has a moon in Gemini or some other sign. The person might have an emphasized Venus/Neptune aspect combination in a sensitive angle, for example. And, remember that each person can use their planetary symbols differently. I've seen compasionate Mars', angry Neptunes and harsh Suns.

While there may be easy paths for figuring out some charts, it often requires taking a few parallel paths, each consisting of some work and a few charts to hone in on a workable time.

WHAT IS A "WORKABLE TIME"?
Accepting that an established time may or may not be the actual birth time, a workable time will give us a chart that shows the impact of major transits, works for secondary progressions and other techniques. It is useful in helping the client know himself or herself, it generally points to "when" issues will arise and need to be faced. It may very well be that the actual (but unkown) MC angle has been placed at the ASC angle -- if signs like Gemini and Virgo are involved the charts might work quite well with one of those signs at either angle, for example. Dave.
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I was born caesarian under general anaesthetic. I have asked mum when my birth time was and she says, "oh, about 6pm," this was in England and since my birthdate is 30th August, I have to allow an hour for daylight savings (or whatever you call it). If I do that, they say that my ascendant is capricorn, and what I have read would have to agree that fits me quite well.

Since I have been well aware of the importance of the time of birth I am very much aware that my son was born at 9:57pm.

Bec
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