Discovering Gébelin!!

firemaiden

Hey Pip! thanks for posting. Enjoy deciphering the French. Some of it is hard going - the old (or just bad) spelling causes confusion (for example: "bale" for "balle")- and I believe there are a few typos ("rient" for "vient" ?). In addition there are some words that have a different sense today that in his day. I have found an astonishing on line french-french dictionary which helps with some of more unusual meanings.

Many words are so ambiguous as to be meaningless, and require interpretation - like "administration générale" - "general administration" what? I interpreted to mean (because of the context) - outside interference.
 

tieduptinkerbell

cool

firemaiden said:
I'd love to study this text with some folks...
I am having it translated for me at the moment...so i can study it too...

will let you know what I think as soon as i can read it
thanks for translating what you did...

its times like this i wish it had been manditory to learn a second language in school...i would have learned french...

sighs

love Bell
x
 

Lillie

How utterly fascinating!

Thank you so much for posting those translations.

I have heard/read so much about the man, yet up till now never have I heard a word from him!

Brilliant.
 

firemaiden

Gébelin on the Chariot and the Lovers

On the Chariot:

I translate
No. VII - Osiris Triumphant.

Osiris comes forth next; he appears in the form of a king triumphing, scepter in hand, crown on his head: he is in his warrior chariot, pulled by two white horses. Nobody is ignorant of the fact that Osiris was the great Egyptian diety, the same as that of the Sabeen peoples, or the Sun, physical symbol of the supreme invisible Divinity, but who manifests himself in this masterpiece of Nature. It is lost during the winter, and reappears in the Spring with new brightness, having triumphed over everything which made war on him.​

And on the Lovers (L'Amoureux): I translate:
No. VI. Marriage

A young man and a young woman pledge their mutual faith: a priest blesses them, Love pierces them with his arrows. The Cardmakers call this card "The Lover". It seems that they themselves added this Cupid with his bow and arrows to make to the picture more expressive in their eyes.

A similar monument can be seen in the Antiquities of Boissard, which depicts the conjugale union, but it is not composed of three figures. Lover and Beloved make their vows. The Angel of Love between them serves as witness and priest.

This work is titled Fidei Simulacrum, a portrayal of conjugale faith: the figures are designated by these beautiful names, Truth, Honor and Love. It is unnecessary to say that Truth here refers to the woman rather than the man, not only because the gender of this word is feminine (La Verité), but because constant fidelity is more essential for the woman. This precious momument was erected by one T. Fundanius Eromenus or "the Aimiable" to his very dear wife Poppée Demetrie, and to their beloved daughter Manilia Eromenis.​

The "Fidei Simulacrum" that Gébellin was looking at might have been something like this: Fidei Simulacrum - the latin caption reads
Let Honour be shown cloaked in Tyrian robe, let naked Truth clasp Honour's right hand, and let chaste Love be in their midst, with the rose around his brow, more lovely than the Cupid of Dione. These signs represent Faithfulness, which Reverence of Honour cherishes, Love nourishes, and Truth delivers.​

Here is another Fidei Symbolum It seems this arrangement of Truth-Love-Honor is a topos in Art.
 

tieduptinkerbell

coooool

firemaiden said:
I have to admit I find his idea about the Hanged Man as "Pede suspenso" - the suspended foot - meaning being careful - prudent - about where to step next - instead of "suspended by the feet" - almost convincing.
me too...me too...wow...this changes that card for me...i had not realized how much you had translated...this is so incredible...

thank you Firemaiden...x
 

firemaiden

Thanks, Tied up Tink and Lillie :D. I'm so glad someone is enjoying this with me!

I'm quite taken with Gébellin's noticing the ressemblance of the Marseille card to the "Fidei Simulacrum" image. The image Gébeillin which saw in the "Antiquities of Boissard" (which according to him, is the way the Lovers card ought to have been represented, LOL) - is an allegory of Fidelity - the three parts of Fidelity being Truth-Love-Honor. Here is another view of one of these emblems from the site of the the Hague library (incredible website!) you can click on the picture to get a muc bigger view. Fidei Symbolum

I also really like his take on the Chariot - as the victorious Sun God - emerging victorious from the ravages of winter.
 

Jewel-ry

Just seen this thread for the first time FM. I havn't time to read it all right now but the first few posts look fascinating and if you are willing to translate, I am certainly willing to stick my five eggs in!

I have to say that right from the first post when you mentioned the tiger, I immediately thought it was the Marseilles too! The talk of the tiger biting at his backside just fits so perfectly. I also love the idea of him representing his regrets or imo little misdemeanors!

I feel right at home with his writing (and your translations) it just sort of grabs your attention and makes you want more. Just great! Will be back here after work.

:)
 

Rosanne

Firemaiden-words of thank you for the thread are inadequate. I have a 'French connection' so have downloaded for translation as well as your words. I will follow the thread avidly. I have always thought of the Hanged Man as Prudence more than sacrifice. Along with Court de Gebelin I was told De Mellet thought of the card as Prudence as well. Many thanks ~ Rosanne
 

catlin

Sirius

@firemaiden:
Thanks for providing us with this wonderful link and thread (not to mention your translation).

As for Star and Sirius: to the Egyptian world the Sirius constellation was apparently sacred (don't nail me on the exact book or thread I stumbled across), maybe because of the resemblance of Anubis with a dog/jackal.
 

firemaiden

Jewel-ry said:
I have to say that right from the first post when you mentioned the tiger, I immediately thought it was the Marseilles too! The talk of the tiger biting at his backside just fits so perfectly. I also love the idea of him representing his regrets or imo little misdemeanors!)

Hi Jewel-ry! No doubt at all that it is a Marseille - the question is... which one? Is there one with a more tiger like cat-dog thing? I think I saw stripes on the cat on the Grimaud...

Glad to have you here :)