Emperpor and hierophant

I struggle to understand these two. I see emperor as traditional man who is the head of household, who holds all four corners of home and who is all about protecting taking care and providing for his family. As his 'wife' is empr ss. They both are perfect couple all home-y and he is provid r and she takes care of cozy home and children. That's what emperor wants and that's what he's all about.

Now hierophant. Hierophant for many readers is traditionalist who is all about marriage and stuff. But his 'wife' is high priestess. She isn't home-y at all. She is all about higher knowledge and spirituality. So I wonder if hierophant holds spirituality in himself or not? He seems to me about marriage of souls (not necessarily made on paper) and finding your other half on spiritual level. He's hierophant after all.

Any thoughts?

In what context did they come up?

WhyWuh said:

I struggle to understand these two. I see emperor as traditional man who is the head of household, who holds all four corners of home and who is all about protecting taking care and providing for his family. As his 'wife' is empr ss. They both are perfect couple all home-y and he is provid r and she takes care of cozy home and children. That's what emperor wants and that's what he's all about.

Now hierophant. Hierophant for many readers is traditionalist who is all about marriage and stuff. But his 'wife' is high priestess. She isn't home-y at all. She is all about higher knowledge and spirituality. So I wonder if hierophant holds spirituality in himself or not? He seems to me about marriage of souls (not necessarily made on paper) and finding your other half on spiritual level. He's hierophant after all.

Any thoughts?

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The theme of Romantic versus Classic is a thread that has run through Western culture from the very beginning: the heart versus the intellect. We even see it in the opposition of church and state, as represented by the Pope and the Emperor. The struggle is also found on a personal level when we have to choose between what we desire and what we are duty-bound to do because of obligations or simple logic. The novel, "Narcissus and Goldmund" by Hermann Hesse is an interesting and enlightening exploration of the consequences of the choice between following our dream or choosing our responsibilities and duties. The two often collide, forcing a choice. It is an age-old dilemma, and when it manifests in a tarot spread, it is saying, on some level, you have to make this choice.

Emperor & Empress

Let me tackle Emperor & Empress first. Then the Hierophant & HPS.

WhyWuh said:

They both are perfect couple all home-y and he is provid r and she takes care of cozy home and children.

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Yes, the Emperor and Empress are the archetype "Dad" and "Mom"--but archetype means you have to think BIG with them (Kings and Queens are smaller, more domestic versions). So the Empress is not mom with kids doing laundry. But rather Martha Stewart taking care of EVERYTHING in any home--grand scale. Gardens, home repair, home decor, celebrations, cleaning, crafts, and every aspect of caring for children--health, nursery, play. That is the Empress. The Empire relies on her as much as it does the Emperor, and she knows exactly how to give anything and anyone in the Empire the loving care, restoration or beautification needed.

The Emperor is, likewise, the BIG picture. Unlike the King/Pents he isn't dad coming home from work with money to feed the family...he is Odin from the Thor movies. He has the idea for the home and BUILDS it. He does this by giving orders and everyone jumping to obey them. You may not know what those commands are about, why you should do them, but you trust that these orders will achieve the goal. And it does. The home gets built. And then the Emperor works on expanding it, protecting it, and making sure everyone follows the rules of the Home--rules that will keep it running well and everyone safe. So everyone living on this estate has their chores (duties). The Emperor delegates those, deciding who will do what. Like a dad assigning chores to children (and yes, he also rewards with allowances). But he does not tell them "how" to do it. As those who obey trust him, he trust them to find ways to do what he commands. He doesn't deal details.

This is why, once the kids have reached a certain age, they go to the Emperor. First, because they need authority. All kids of a certain age need someone to tell them what to do. Second, because he gives them chores and, in figuring out how to do those, they become adults. The Empress makes sure the offspring are cared for till they can leave the nest. The Emperor teaches them to fly.

Thirteen said:

Let me tackle Emperor & Empress first. Then the Hierophant & HPS.

Yes, the Emperor and Empress are the archetype "Dad" and "Mom"--but archetype means you have to think BIG with them (Kings and Queens are smaller, more domestic versions). So the Empress is not mom with kids doing laundry. But rather Martha Stewart taking care of EVERYTHING in any home--grand scale. Gardens, home repair, home decor, celebrations, cleaning, crafts, and every aspect of caring for children--health, nursery, play. That is the Empress. The Empire relies on her as much as it does the Emperor, and she knows exactly how to give anything and anyone in the Empire the loving care, restoration or beautification needed.

The Emperor is, likewise, the BIG picture. Unlike the King/Pents he isn't dad coming home from work with money to feed the family...he is Odin from the Thor movies. He has the idea for the home and BUILDS it. He does this by giving orders and everyone jumping to obey them. You may not know what those commands are about, why you should do them, but you trust that these orders will achieve the goal. And it does. The home gets built. And then the Emperor works on expanding it, protecting it, and making sure everyone follows the rules of the Home--rules that will keep it running well and everyone safe. So everyone living on this estate has their chores (duties). The Emperor delegates those, deciding who will do what. Like a dad assigning chores to children (and yes, he also rewards with allowances). But he does not tell them "how" to do it. As those who obey trust him, he trust them to find ways to do what he commands. He doesn't deal details.

This is why, once the kids have reached a certain age, they go to the Emperor. First, because they need authority. All kids of a certain age need someone to tell them what to do. Second, because he gives them chores and, in figuring out how to do those, they become adults. The Empress makes sure the offspring are cared for till they can leave the nest. The Emperor teaches them to fly.

Click to expand...

OMG....this is great! Thank you.

The Hierophant & the HPS

WhyWuh said:

Now hierophant. Hierophant for many readers is traditionalist who is all about marriage and stuff. But his 'wife' is high priestess. She isn't home-y at all.

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Ah, but is the HPS "wife" to the Hierophant or to the Magician? The Magician is all about talk, she's about silence. He's out in the open, she's inside. She fits well with him. And how about the Hermit? She could be wife to him, too. Both solitary, focused on knowledge...Yes, I know, technically "high priest" and "high priestess." So what about the Hierophant and HPS? The opposition here is not "outer" vs. "inner" spirituality. It's between social vs. solitary spirituality. The Hierophant's job is to make the divine "earthly." Which is like a minister explaining to someone why they shouldn't have sex before marriage. This is the "tradition" of the church, and there is a spiritual reason for it (presumably). A "Higher purpose." His job is to explain to a lay person, who has no spiritual understanding, why they should keep to this tradition. Why it is in their spiritual interests to do so. Thus, everyone in the tribe (or Empire) follows the "tradition."

You asked if he holds spirituality inside himself. And he does: by *internalizing* the traditions. Like someone who crosses themselves when they enter a church--the tradition is a manifestation of inner spirituality. Cross yourself, and you feel spiritual. Feel spiritual, and you cross yourself. Thus, the Hierophant aim is to instills spirituality into all by giving them these traditions to follow.

The HPS, on the other hand, meets with the person who wants to have sex before marriage; they ask whether they should do this. The Hierophant would say "NO," open his holy book, and explain why. The HPS, on the other hand, urges them to take time out and pray, meditate, go on dream quests (something like that). She believes that all divine knowledge is within us and with solitude and introspection, we will understand. So if not having sex before marriage is right, we can find out for ourselves. The Hermit, just to add, would take the "no sex before marriage" argument and say, "I'm going to investigate this further, shine a light on it from every angle. I want to really see this divine purpose in this before I follow it." And the Magician would simply throw out the idea "How about no sex before marriage? That sounds like an interesting thing to try."

As for the Emperor, he doesn't care about such. He might have an imperial law about "no sex before marriage," but if he does, it's only so that everyone knows who the father of the children are, so that the father can support those children or have rights to them. He doesn't care about the spiritual reasons, or keeping everyone spiritually unified by way of traditions, he cares about making sure there is order and everything is running smoothly. And he will change that law easily and quickly if it isn't working. The Hierophant would never do that.

headincloud said:

In what context did they come up?

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It wasn't particular question. I just struggle with these two in general.

Ruby Jewel said:

The theme of Romantic versus Classic is a thread that has run through Western culture from the very beginning: the heart versus the intellect. We even see it in the opposition of church and state, as represented by the Pope and the Emperor. The struggle is also found on a personal level when we have to choose between what we desire and what we are duty-bound to do because of obligations or simple logic. The novel, "Narcissus and Goldmund" by Hermann Hesse is an interesting and enlightening exploration of the consequences of the choice between following our dream or choosing our responsibilities and duties. The two often collide, forcing a choice. It is an age-old dilemma, and when it manifests in a tarot spread, it is saying, on some level, you have to make this choice.

Click to expand...

But shouldn't cards represent one thing with one card and another thing with another card? It's like they're both separate things after all. Yes hierophant could desire to have family and stuff but he can't and for me it makes this card as higher love. Not family/kids type of love. And marriage (civil marriage) makes me think exactly of that. That's why it's more of an emperor thing for me. That earthy love that comes with daily chores, feeding your family and keeping yourself as a head of the family.

When it comes to readings, I find that the emperor shows up when there is a strong opinion about something. He can also mean that there is a male of some importance. With the emperor, someone's actions or thoughts are crucial to the circumstances, this person could change things.

The hierophant, I see it more as guidance from someone. The similarity is that they are both higher up on the mental hierarchy, but emperor controls a situation and the hierophant suggests how the situation could go. Emperor stands out, hierophant seeks to keep the status quo.

Thirteen said:

Let me tackle Emperor & Empress first. Then the Hierophant & HPS.

Yes, the Emperor and Empress are the archetype "Dad" and "Mom"--but archetype means you have to think BIG with them (Kings and Queens are smaller, more domestic versions). So the Empress is not mom with kids doing laundry. But rather Martha Stewart taking care of EVERYTHING in any home--grand scale. Gardens, home repair, home decor, celebrations, cleaning, crafts, and every aspect of caring for children--health, nursery, play. That is the Empress. The Empire relies on her as much as it does the Emperor, and she knows exactly how to give anything and anyone in the Empire the loving care, restoration or beautification needed.

The Emperor is, likewise, the BIG picture. Unlike the King/Pents he isn't dad coming home from work with money to feed the family...he is Odin from the Thor movies. He has the idea for the home and BUILDS it. He does this by giving orders and everyone jumping to obey them. You may not know what those commands are about, why you should do them, but you trust that these orders will achieve the goal. And it does. The home gets built. And then the Emperor works on expanding it, protecting it, and making sure everyone follows the rules of the Home--rules that will keep it running well and everyone safe. So everyone living on this estate has their chores (duties). The Emperor delegates those, deciding who will do what. Like a dad assigning chores to children (and yes, he also rewards with allowances). But he does not tell them "how" to do it. As those who obey trust him, he trust them to find ways to do what he commands. He doesn't deal details.

This is why, once the kids have reached a certain age, they go to the Emperor. First, because they need authority. All kids of a certain age need someone to tell them what to do. Second, because he gives them chores and, in figuring out how to do those, they become adults. The Empress makes sure the offspring are cared for till they can leave the nest. The Emperor teaches them to fly.

Click to expand...

This is very interesting. Interesting that emperor is like a ruler. I alays saw magus as a ruler. He has all these tools and then he uses them to achieve his goal. He uses them to trick others into doing what he wants.
Emperor was always a dad for me. Just on a higher scale. He has his kingdom and takes care of it. But you're right it seems. He is someone who makes them fly when empress is here to make sure they reach that age at which they can fly. He is like someone learning others to be the best version of themselves by giving some tough love.
Emperor is like hierophant and magician into one. Order but he gives that order with expectation (or is it knowing?) that it will be done the way he wants even when not telling how exactly. He just knows right?