Colors in the RWS and Golden Dawn tarots (split from the Guidelines thread)

re-pete-a

Thanks for the split,MODs,red=desires,passions,
blue=dreams,meloncoly,learning
black =sorrow,lack of knowledge,dark moods
gold =higher learning,highest state of the soul,
white= purity,untainted
purple=educated,intellectual,on the road up,
green=jealousy, etheric,growth,
brown=lower etheric,work on,next stage up from confusion.
grey=confusion,undecided,
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TURKISH RECIPES
 

ravenest

Its plain black and white

Thanks for posting that ... what is the Hermetic source and the reasonings behind this sceme?

For example;
Black = sorrow, lack of knowledge and dark moods. WHY?
Is it becasue some of us are scared of night ... of black people ... is it fear of what we cant see?

for me; black = high level of spirituality, confidence, transmutation to a pure state.

WHY? because black is the totall absorbtion (and hence acceptance) of all colors. It is the 'negreto' stage of alchemy, (and in Biodynamics with the preparation 500 ) just before the 'gold' is formed (or more correctly, that substance that makes other substances gold when bought into its influence)

I think one system is hermetic, where detailed analytical and sometimes scientific, knowledge is blended with what we feel and observe. The other is fairly superficial IMO.
White is good, spiritual holy people wear white (yet because of its reflective nature it is non absorbtive and hence reppelent) while those that wear black (especially black ritual robes ,,, YIKES! watch out for them... ;)
 

re-pete-a

ravenest,,,in our understanding there's only one answer for WHY,and that's BECAUSE,for as many questions as one could ask,,,we try to avoid these,...The colours we mentioned are from our own understandings, folk tales,sayings.We would love a simple answer,Our own fossickings have revealed that purple is associated to knowledge and higher learnings,WORLD...GREEN is given to the etheric,grass trees etc,the spirit of growth,change ,5,.....BLACK,,is given to the 13,where the light refuses to go.It's a combining of all colours thus a necessary step for completion.Can you add to the list? Your views on black are interesting.We also understand that to arrive at a simple truth one must sift through mountains of stuff,so,,,,we need more stuff. Also black is given to the carbon ,the lowest denominator after the purifing effects from the alchemists fire,white is the colour of salt which again is the end result of matter through the furnace of purity,a lot of hermetic STUFF was gathered from common observations,EG:candles,its flame its wick,its smoke,the haze of hot air,the rising of that air,their forte was insights and personal experiences,that way they could train, step by step, the initiates with practical demonstrations......
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Herbal vaporizers
 

re-pete-a

Would you say that was a grey area.and one is seeing red,,,FyreFlye,this thread is labelled COLOURS of RWS&G.D...though we can understand your point,that's why we're here in this thread,we're the moving thread,catch us if you can,Makes one descend into a blue flunk trying to keep up!!!!Nice to meet you again AEON
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FRYING
 

ravenest

re-pete-a said:
ravenest,,,in our understanding there's only one answer for WHY,and that's BECAUSE,for as many questions as one could ask,,,we try to avoid these,...
Click to expand...

We ? Huh? Who is the 'we' that are trying to avoid 'why' questions? Why would anyone not be interested in why ( ;) ). IMO 'why' is a big part of hermetics.
re-pete-a said:
The colours we mentioned are from our own understandings, folk tales,sayings.We would love a simple answer,Our own fossickings have revealed that purple is associated to knowledge and higher learnings
Click to expand...
But ... again... why? Are we just going to make statements here or are we going to offer some sequential reasonings that have been updated as we discover more (again IMO is a big part of hermetics). Purple was one of the last colors that was 'discovered' or produced by humans. the Phoenicians I think ? It was v. expensive at first so people like emperors kings, and later priests and Bishops used it as part of their Regalia ... it became a 'royal' color.
re-pete-a said:
WORLD...GREEN is given to the etheric,grass trees etc,the spirit of growth,change ,,.....BLACK,,is given to the 13,where the light refuses to go.
Click to expand...

This is what I mean ... why does light 'refuse to go' to black ??? Black comes about due to non reflection of light i.e. black totally absorbs light, in fact the exact opposite of light refusing to go into black.
re-pete-a said:
It's a combining of all colours thus a necessary step for completion.Can you add to the list? Your views on black are interesting.
Click to expand...
I use the AC / GD 4 scale HERMETIC color sceme, its in many well known books ( G.D. charts . 777 - where Crowley gives great appendixes on 'why it is so' - as the late great science teacher professor Julius Sumner-Miller was fond of saying). My 'views' on black are just the basic properties of light and color ( added to by the above source and subtracting the new Age imput -which is based on watered down or misinterpreted hermetics anyway)

re-pete-a said:
We also understand that to arrive at a simple truth one must sift through mountains of stuff,so,,,,we need more stuff. Also black is given to the carbon ,the lowest denominator after the purifing effects from the alchemists fire,white is the colour of salt which again is the end result of matter through the furnace of purity,a lot of hermetic STUFF was gathered from common observations,EG:candles,its flame its wick,its smoke,the haze of hot air,the rising of that air,their forte was insights and personal experiences,that way they could train, step by step, the initiates with practical demonstrations......
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, but my point is that all this knowledge and natural wisdom and folk tradition FOR SOME was influenced by discoveries being made in the 'scientific revolution' (which came for Europe hundreds of years after it came for / from Islamic Culture) and hermetics began to develop and for some, that process still continues today.
 

re-pete-a

Perhaps from this point on we may be talking to ourselves,thats a FOOL thing to do....ever notice how black and white seem to work together best...........the light and the dark of life,,,,ever wondered that the higher learned ones simply observed the fumblings of the awakening,un sleeping few.ever wondered that they took the vow of silence seriously........it's not as black and white as one would think.........there's dire consequences for those that turn on the golden light in a darkened environment.Thinking is the preferred method of the sleeping,FEELING is the method of the experiencing.Combined is colourless..
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UPSKIRT EBONY
 

re-pete-a

Needing More Colour

some information that has just come to light.........
1.. ROOT CHAKRA..base of spine....FIREY RED
2.. SPLEEN CHAKRA...SMALL OF BACK,,,between navel and base of spine.
BRIGHT ORANGE
3.. SOLAR PLEXUS CHAKRA..BEHIND THE NAVEL,SOLAR PLEXUS
YELLOW
4.. HEART CHAKRA........BEHIND THE HEART,between the shoulder blades
BRILLIANT GREEN
5..THROAT CHAKRA........BETWEEN VOICE BOX AND BASE OF SKULL
ELECTRIC OR SILVERY BLUE
6.. BROW CHAKRA...........BETWEEN THE EYE BROWS INSIDE THE SKULL
INDIGO,DEEP VIOLET BLUE
7.. CROWN CHAKRA........ON TOP OF THE SKULL
VIOLET

there are some sources that say there are another two further up,but still inside the aura,making nine all up....haven't been able to track their colour or exact location.these others may have something to do with the opened lotus,the fully developed, ALL ego....with this colour information it should be easy enough to untangle some of the oft used expressions.seeing RED(very primal anger,lower orientation)..FEELING BLUE...(.in the higher realms,of the head,)etc.PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THE LIST OF EMOTIVE COLOURS,WE'RE INTERESTED .....
BLACK...THAT WOULD be all colours combined,as suggested by RAVRNEST.......the colour of DEATH,gone back to the source,.
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Lamborghini portofino
 

Scion

Hey Re-Pete-A,

I'm not sure what that list means. While it IS a list of colors with attributions, the colors/chakras you've provided are not part of the "Colors in the RWS and Golden Dawn tarots" which after all, is the title/subject of the thread. Admittedly, this thread was excised from another thread originally called "Guidelines for the Hermetic Tarot Sub-Forum" but your posts about color weren't related to that either... hence the excision.

There are discussions about the chakras (in various iterations) in other areas of the Aeclectic, but this thread (and this subforum) specifically addresses the Golden Dawn tradition. I feel like there is a deep confusion at work here. I could also post a listing of color symbolism in Yoruba mythology or fast-food marketing, but they would have nothing to do with the GD system. We are not talking about (in your words) "Emotive colors" or "our own understandings, folk tales, sayings" but specifically the Golden Dawn tradition; unless you want to discuss your "emotive response" to use of the Golden Dawn colorscales "emotive" anything doesn't belong here. To be blunt, there are areas in Aeclectic where people share their freeform impressions and instinctive feelings and idiosyncratic subjective interpretations of symbolism without any references or investigation or context but this is not that area.

Do you have any input that's actually related to the topic of the thread? Any insight into the Golden Dawn color scales or their use in Golden-Dawn-based decks? Any observations about the contradiction between their theoretical distribution and the art which has tried to use them in varying degrees? To be clear, I'd be interested in actually discussing the topic of color in the various Golden Dawn Tarots with you, but if that's the case, I'd like to actually discuss the topic or your thoughts about it.

Your apparent unfamiliarity not just with the subject, but the fact that it IS the subject, coupled with your adamant use of defensive first person plural, pretty much guarantees that no discussion can occur... Unless you explain the way in which the googled chakra/color table above relates to the Golden Dawn, I don't have any idea how to respond or any indication of why I should bother.

Scion
 
what defines the colour of the cards The Book of the Law Study Group 3.13