Book T Minors: Aries

Grigori

Always Wondering said:
So what makes Venus illdignified in Aries? All that softness and beauty up against all that male aggression?
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Its maths again. If you look at the zodiac wheel, the sign opposite Aries is Libra. Aries is Ruled by Mars, Libra is ruled by Venus. So Venus is in her Detriment in Aries (the exact opposite of where she "belongs" and Mars is in his Detriment in Libra, the exact opposite of where he would rather be. They are basically as far away from home as possible there.
 

Always Wondering

Hmmmmmmm. A RWS deck, or a book on basic astrology?
Maybe both. :|
 

sweet_intuition

similia said:
Yep, all true. I've been trying to focus on only the astrology part so far, and temporarily fudge over the kinks with Venus being in her Detriment in Aries, so as to not get things too confused. But it is kinda of like taking the softest prettiest princess you ever saw, and chucking her in a biker bar. Things can get ugly })
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LOL @ the description. Although personally, I always saw Venus in Aries in the following situation. Think dainty delicate uber femme 'godess' sipping a cocktail in the middle of a roadhouse bar :D. (Venus in Scorpio would be the evil tranny with a 'surprise package').


It's Chesed the 4th Sephirot, and the first below the abyss. The first 3 are ideals, not so much a reality, but the 4 is the start of the real thing. It represents the first real manifestation of the suit, so is a VERY strong position to be in. 4 is like the cube (one is the point, two is the line, 3 is a plane and 4 makes a cube, the first 3D object). Eventually we throw in the 5 which is when "Motion" comes into play, and of course that is why the 5's are so miserable and send everything straight to ****. ;)
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Well isn't Chesed also associated with Jupiter? So in a way, if we look at just the astrology bit, the card is Venus in Aries with Jupiter. So considering Jupiter is the complete opposite of subtle and calm, again it doesn't really bring about the essence of "Completion". But yes, I suppose the whole "cube" bit help in it's own way :D

The astrology is strongest in the early cards, especially the 2's and 3's above the abyss. After that as we go further down the tree of life, it becomes less and less pure and things get more murky. For example the 10 of Swords. Why would the Sun in Gemini be so miserable? Its not because of the astrology, its because of the other stuff.
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Well, I suppose that is true, cause Venus isn't her best in Virgo (fall) and yet the 9 of Disks is given the title of "Gain". As far as why would Sun in Gemini be so miserable? Well, you gotta meet some of the people with Sun in Gemini that I know off ;).


Aeon418 made the point in the thread on the signs that we are only looking at a part of the story, which is really true. I'm trying to get enough of the astrology system out there, so we can be comfortable tackling the rest. You caught me. *sprung* :D
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Lol... I think that's the beauty of the Thoth deck and other GD based decks, the minute you think you've figured out a way of interpreting them fully, something new crops up. It's such a mindf*** ... I love it!
 

Aeon418

I see the 4 of Wands - Venus in Aries as the union of opposites making a complete whole. It's the union of love and war, feminine and masculine energies. I doesn't matter that they are diametric opposites, that's the whole point. Together they can manifest something that neither could do alone. Venus can be too lovey-dovey and languid. The fire of Aries is just what she needs. In contrast the energy of Aries is often destructive. It needs the tempering influnce of Venus to channel it in a constructive way.

This is a Chesed/Jupiter card, so ideas of building and harmony are reinforced in every way.

Place the Empress and the Emperor side by side, looking at each other, and you've basically got the 4 of Wands - Completion.
 

Always Wondering

I'm studying. Aeon418's post got me out of the confusion of detriment. I have learned there is also a fall attribution. I have read several sources (including this thread) that lead me to believe that these attributions are a bit more subjective. I can imagine, perhaps, which card it falls next to and so on. It's good to know about them it will make it more interesting later.

I found myself wishing there was a one stop shopping type encyclopedia to help me quickly grasp some of the conversations and found it in Crowley's 777.

I do hope this tread continues. Or there is a new one.

AW
 

Grigori

Always Wondering said:
I have read several sources (including this thread) that lead me to believe that these attributions are a bit more subjective.
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Yes, I think they are a much more subjective area. Even in astrology they don't see to be applied as much by modern authors as more classical ones who seem to stress them as vital. In Tarot I think they become much less definative, but still useful IMO.

Always Wondering said:
I do hope this tread continues. Or there is a new one.
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I've created a new thread on the Cancer pips over here.
 

elvenstar

What Aeon says about the four of wands makes a lot of sense to me, especially seen through the 'Completion' angle.

Something secondary that occurred to me is this. Looking at Venus in Aries from the 'planet's energy expressed through the sign' angle, I was reminded of Velvet Underground's Venus in Furs. Not to pursue the specific connotations too far, but perhaps another way to see that princess in the biker's bar is to see her on her own motorbike wearing shiny boots of leather. The love, pleasure or passion aspect of Venus expressed in an 'active', fiery, or even aggressive way, e.g. tough love. And this could be a good or bad thing depending on the circumstances.
 

Always Wondering

elvenstar said:
Something secondary that occurred to me is this. Looking at Venus in Aries from the 'planet's energy expressed through the sign' angle, I was reminded of Velvet Underground's Venus in Furs. Not to pursue the specific connotations too far, but perhaps another way to see that princess in the biker's bar is to see her on her own motorbike wearing shiny boots of leather. The love, pleasure or passion aspect of Venus expressed in an 'active', fiery, or even aggressive way, e.g. tough love. And this could be a good or bad thing depending on the circumstances.
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:lightbulb I can now identify some four of wands energy in my life. Tricky moments with my wayward daughter. A great motorbike ride with my husband, I on the back, because it would truely be a detriment for me to try and control one of those things. :laugh:

AW
 

Grigori

I was reading up on dignities this morning while studying for the Cancer cards, and have realized something kinda nifty. Beyond the basic and most important astrological dignities (Ruler, Exhalted, Fall, Detriment) there are a number of minor dignities. One of them is known as "Face". It's a very minor dignity, barely better than no dignity at all. Frawley describes it as:

....likened to a man in the porch of his house before being thrown out into the street. His position is not good, but it is better than being out in the wind and the rain: better dignity by face than no dignity at all.
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The nifty thing I realized, that the "faces" are exactly the same as the attributions for the minor arcana cards. So in Aries the faces are:

1st Decan: Mars (2 of Wands)
2nd Decan: Sun (3 of Wands)
3rd Decan: Venus (4 of Wands)

When we are looking at Venus's dignity in Aries, though she is generally in her Detriment, in the last decan which is the 4 of Wands, she is also in her "Face" so is a little better than she would be elsewhere in that sign.

This will be true for every card however, each one has just a little bit of positive spin on it, even if the bulk may be negative.
 
Black Pearl The Book of The Law Study Group 3.7