The Qabalistic Tarot by Robert Wang -study tool

Zephyros

It took me a long time to understand that Waite followed the un-intuitive GD practice of calling what I think of as sons/Princes by the title of Kings, and calling what are essentially the fathers Knights. Or am I still fudging it? Never can tell, I'm so used to the logic of the Thoth. First time I looked through the Hermetic I completely lost it.

Modern fortune tellers don't pay any attention to that, and place the Kings as topmost in the hierarchy, and the Knights as third. Intuitively it makes sense, as the Kings are seated while the Knights are riding, but it's still wrong, and no doubt among the secrets Waite was hiding. In all the discussions about his reticence, this is relatively unmentioned, and is perhaps his best kept secret hiding in plain view.

I could be wrong, but I think Wang mentions this disparity but it has beena while since I read it.

ETA: Just checked, and Wang puts the Kings in Chochma. What's going on here? I don't know anything.
 

Aeon418

It took me a long time to understand that Waite followed the un-intuitive GD practice of calling what I think of as sons/Princes by the title of Kings, and calling what are essentially the fathers Knights. Or am I still fudging it?

You've got it. :thumbsup:

Two examples from Book T.

The Knight of Wands is "The Lord of the Flame and the Lightning; The King of the Spirits of Fire. Fire of Fire - King of Salamanders. (Riding a Horse. Yod)

The King of Wands is "The Prince of the Chariot of Fire. Air of Fire - Prince and Emperor of Salamanders. (Riding in a chariot. Vav)
 

Aeon418

ETA: Just checked, and Wang puts the Kings in Chochma. What's going on here?

That's what I would like to know. The Golden Dawn Kings and Thoth Knights correspond to Chokmah. But, if we are following Golden Dawn protocol, the RWS and TdM Kings are in the wrong place. Everyone in that section should be on horse back to represent the swift masculine impulse.

And like I already said, Waites Kings feature Kerubic symbolism which corresponds to the Princes - Vav.
 

Richard

Wang puts the Waite Kings at Chokmah and the Knights at Tiphareth. He ignores the Lions (Leo) on the throne of the King of Wands and places him in the three Scorpio-Sagittarius decans. Likewise, the Bulls (Taurus) on the King of Pentacles are ignored. Thus for Wang, the Waite Kings are primarily mutable, and the Knights primarily fixed. I don't think this should be correct. Wang did not think the matter through carefully enough.
 

Aeon418

I don't think this should be correct. Wang did not think the matter through carefully enough.

Agreed. :thumbsup:

It's a small point that doesn't really effect the book in a major way. But Wang really should have picked up on it. I noticed it on my first read through!
 

Zephyros

It certainly is strange. Even if you ignore the images, Wang was aware of the disparity in nomenclature, being who he was and knowing the people he did. All the pictures are correct, except the RWS Kings. He even discusses them as relating to Chochma, yet misses the obvious, even when it is side by side in his own book.

I agree, though, that it doesn't do much to detract from a great book.
 

Zephyros

As an aside, the Pictorial Key is just as confusing on the subject, if not more.
 

ravenest

It certainly is strange. Even if you ignore the images, Wang was aware of the disparity in nomenclature, being who he was and knowing the people he did. All the pictures are correct, except the RWS Kings. He even discusses them as relating to Chochma, yet misses the obvious, even when it is side by side in his own book.

I agree, though, that it doesn't do much to detract from a great book.

I got the impression that 'mistakes' are made when one reprints another's work, diagrams, tables, etc. without having a practical experience or at least an in depth examination of the material. [Like the GD magic square that appears in some books ... if you work with it, it just doesn't make sense ... until you realise that the same number is in two boxes.]
 

Richard

As an aside, the Pictorial Key is just as confusing on the subject, if not more.
Predictably, Waite discusses the courts in the order King, Queen, Knight, Page., which is the traditional ranking. He does, however, mention the symbolism of the lions and bulls in connection with the Kings of Wands and Pentacles, respectively, thus hinting at their association with the fixed signs, which Wang totally disregards. I don't have the energy now to check on the Queens and Knights in PKT. I rarely look at the divinatory section of the book.
 

Grigori

Predictably, Waite discusses the courts in the order King, Queen, Knight, Page., which is the traditional ranking. He does, however, mention the symbolism of the lions and bulls in connection with the Kings of Wands and Pentacles, respectively, thus hinting at their association with the fixed signs, which Wang totally disregards. I don't have the energy now to check on the Queens and Knights in PKT. I rarely look at the divinatory section of the book.

He also says the Knight's are older than the Kings when discussing their divinatory meanings. Wang had to ignore both qabalism and the astrology which is clear on the cards for all of the courts to equate the courts as he did.