The Pillars

Rusty Neon

ros said:
The pillars in the

High Priestess
Justice
Hierophant

Are they all the same pillars?

Hi ros ... I'd say that, even though all three cards show pillars, those pillars are at different places, and so aren't the same pillars. The Priestess would be at her temple. The Hierophant/Pope would be at his temple/cathedral. The goddess in the Justice card would be at her palace/temple. I can't see each of the three being in the same exact same building.

mac22

the pillars

Vincent said:
[This cannot really be interpreted as "make up anything you want about the deck... all opinions are valid", can it?

Make up? I offered an interpretation, exegesis [one differing from either you or Waite]

The question asked was; are the two sets of pillars the same?

The original post referred to more than 2 cards. Besides I answered this in more than one post...The pillars are similar but not the same.

If you want to think that these sets of pillars are the same, then that is fine, but that doesn't mean that Waite thought they were, especially when there is evidence to the contrary, in his own words.
Vincent

You're welcome to be a strict Waite constructionist if you wish...

For me the Tarot is a live vibrant book whose symbols are not the exclusive property of any single occultist, mystic, Mason, mage or author.

mac22

Rusty Neon said:
Hi ros ... I'd say that, even though all three cards show pillars, those pillars are at different places, and so aren't the same pillars. The Priestess would be at her temple. The Hierophant/Pope would be at his temple/cathedral. The goddess in the Justice card would be at her palace/temple. I can't see each of the three being in the same exact same building.

Excellent points.

TemperanceAngel

ros said:
Does this mean that the two people chained with the Devil
symbolize another pillar?

I personally would seem them as another set of pillars, but as we can see from this thread that we all perceive the symbols diffferently....
XTAX

mac22

TemperanceAngel said:
I personally would seem them as another set of pillars, but as we can see from this thread that we all perceive the symbols diffferently....
XTAX

Occult symbols by definition are open to interpretation & exegesis. Are they not?

Kiama

I think I read somewhere (can't remember where now!) that wherever a figure is seated between two pillars, they are the pillars of the Tree of Life, and the person seated between them is on the Middle Pillar. This certainly makes sense with the High Priestess who is on the path between Kether and Tiphareth, at the top of the Middle Pillar and in between the other two.

Temperence also has been mentioned as having 'pillars': the two different jugs of liquid. This card also lies along the middle pillar, as does the World, the woman in which is holding two rods...

Just some observations...

Kiama

mac22

Kiama said:
I think I read somewhere (can't remember where now!) that wherever a figure is seated between two pillars, they are the pillars of the Tree of Life, and the person seated between them is on the Middle Pillar. This certainly makes sense with the High Priestess who is on the path between Kether and Tiphareth, at the top of the Middle Pillar and in between the other two.

Temperence also has been mentioned as having 'pillars': the two different jugs of liquid. This card also lies along the middle pillar, as does the World, the woman in which is holding two rods...

Just some observations...

Kiama

great points.

TemperanceAngel

Re: Re: the pillars

Vincent said:
I have no problem whatsoever with you taking any symbol from the deck and imagining it to mean whatever you might want it to mean.

If you want to think that these sets of pillars are the same, then that is fine, but that doesn't mean that Waite thought they were, especially when there is evidence to the contrary, in his own words.

Vincent you have to remember that Waite was part of a very secret society (refer to Rustys thread in Talking Tarot)
Waite was not telling all in his descriptions of his deck, it is more about what Waite didn't say rather than did...

Remember that if a true symbol can be defined, then it is not a symbol anymore. We need to remember the essence of symbols

From Merrium-Webster on-line:
Symbol 1. An authorative summary of faith or doctrine: creed
2. Something that stands for or suggests something else by reason of relationship, association, convention or accidental resemblence; especially a visible sign for something invisible; a lion is a symbol of courage

Sorry to go off topic there folks, but I do think that in a discussion forum it is about discussing ones ideas, interpretations and thoughts. No offence meant, the Pillars will always provoke an interesting discussion, one that people will differ in ideas...

XTAX

mac22

the pillars

TemperanceAngel said:
Vincent you have to remember that Waite was part of a very secret society (refer to Rustys thread in Talking Tarot)
Waite was not telling all in his descriptions of his deck, it is more about what Waite didn't say rather than did...

Remember that if a true symbol can be defined, then it is not a symbol anymore. We need to remember the essence of symbols

From Merrium-Webster on-line:
Symbol 1. An authorative summary of faith or doctrine: creed
2. Something that stands for or suggests something else by reason of relationship, association, convention or accidental resemblence; especially a visible sign for something invisible; a lion is a symbol of courage

Sorry to go off topic there folks, but I do think that in a discussion forum it is about discussing ones ideas, interpretations and thoughts. No offence meant, the Pillars will always provoke an interesting discussion, one that people will differ in ideas... XTAX

This is pretty much what I been saying Waite is NEVER gonna spill the esoteric secrets about the meanings of the symbols of the Tarot in any book available to the public.

It was against his nature.

TemperanceAngel

Re: the pillars

mac22 said:
This is pretty much what I been saying Waite is NEVER gonna spill the esoteric secrets about the meanings of the symbols of the Tarot in any book available to the public. It was against his nature.

I thought as much, mac22, just thought I would elaborate a bit for you....
Which makes me wonder is there such knowledge available as to Waites true meanings?
XTAX