Kings representing female querents? And queens males?

barefootlife

99% of the time I read courts as the manifestation or need for their particular energies in a situation, not as people. Pages are learners, Knights are doers, Queens have a mastery of internal energies that can manifest as behaviors, Kings externally manifest their energy in their attitudes and behaviors. Sometimes these traits are manifested or needed by the querent, other times by another person in the reading. They're not particularly gendered qualities in my reading.
 

rwcarter

But I what Barley wine says makes great sense and this by rwcarter "Yes, so a K can take the Q's internal energy and express it out to the world." makes me worry about my meeting today. If the QoW woman I'm meeting today uses KoC energy to bring out her worst. Hmm.
Expressing out to the world also includes the decision NOT to express externally. Not expressing is a form of expression. So a King may decide that it's strategically the right thing to do not to express outward in a particular situation.

Rodney
 

wheelie

I learned from Joan Bunning's course/book (which is GREAT and available here on AT) the Golden Dawn sequence of page/earth--knight/air--queen/water--king/fire.

So if not you or another person, then

The page represents a new message or opportunity

The knight represents the extremes; ask, "is the energy helping or harming?"

A Queen invite you to think and feel as she does

A King invites you to act as he would...(take charge or responsibility in his manner?)
 

Barleywine

This topic hits close to home for me. For decades I used the King of Cups as my personal significator, mainly due to my astrological profile. But while putting together a table of all of Aleister Crowley's bits-and-pieces on the court cards from the Book of Thoth, I realized that his descriptions of the "moral characteristics" of the Queen of Cups are much more reflective of how I handle myself psychologically in the world. Gender has nothing to do with it.
 

arcange

Expressing out to the world also includes the decision NOT to express externally. Not expressing is a form of expression. So a King may decide that it's strategically the right thing to do not to express outward in a particular situation.

Rodney

This is exaclty what happened yesterday in my encounter with this person who is/was the manager. Yesterday was her last day. She kept cool and reserved. The QoW came up in the same reading as 'the near future.' I thought it would be new energy with my work but it turned out to be the new gallery manager who was there yesterday.

I used to think the court cards were people, now I think more them more as personality aspects. But in a recent reading the PoS turned out to be a very harmful liar. I've got lots to learn.
 

barefootlife

This topic hits close to home for me. For decades I used the King of Cups as my personal significator, mainly due to my astrological profile. But while putting together a table of all of Aleister Crowley's bits-and-pieces on the court cards from the Book of Thoth, I realized that his descriptions of the "moral characteristics" of the Queen of Cups are much more reflective of how I handle myself psychologically in the world. Gender has nothing to do with it.

There's a trend in some newer, less traditional decks to ungender the courts and arcana. It's often done out of a desire to queer the deck and make it more accessible to people who don't conform or associate well with gender norms, but I think it's useful to everyone to at least see how gender associations really don't always do favors to a lot of tarot reading. (Alas, I don't think these decks are really going to fall into your reading tastes/wheelhouse, Barley, especially since you lean Thoth-y, but a little time with the LWB is worth it.) Looking into the arcana and courts of a deck like Slow Holler might add a little extra flavor to rigorous explorations of the tarot, despite the fact that the deck itself is definitely not for everyone. Even when we mentally try to ignore the gendered appearances of cards, there's still that societal conditioning that says 'this card has traditionally masculine traits' or 'this card represents feminine energies'. Not necessarily an inherently bad thing, but definitely an inherently narrowing thing.
 

Barleywine

There's a trend in some newer, less traditional decks to ungender the courts and arcana. It's often done out of a desire to queer the deck and make it more accessible to people who don't conform or associate well with gender norms, but I think it's useful to everyone to at least see how gender associations really don't always do favors to a lot of tarot reading. (Alas, I don't think these decks are really going to fall into your reading tastes/wheelhouse, Barley, especially since you lean Thoth-y, but a little time with the LWB is worth it.) Looking into the arcana and courts of a deck like Slow Holler might add a little extra flavor to rigorous explorations of the tarot, despite the fact that the deck itself is definitely not for everyone. Even when we mentally try to ignore the gendered appearances of cards, there's still that societal conditioning that says 'this card has traditionally masculine traits' or 'this card represents feminine energies'. Not necessarily an inherently bad thing, but definitely an inherently narrowing thing.

I only ungender the deck, figuratively that is, when I'm reading for myself and looking at personality factors. When reading for other (most of whom are mid-40s and older), I start with the male/female distinction and then move into individual characteristics and external forces. So I want all options on the table. That said, I had a reading last week that looked at the client's work situation; the "present" card was the King of Cups rx. I asked about her boss, who seemed to be the main problem at the moment, and used "he" but was corrected that it was a "she" who exhibited all of the traits of the KoC reversed.
 

Ruby Jewel

My long-standing approach in reading the courts has been to use Aleister Crowley's "moral characteristics" from the Book of Thoth as a place to start.

I just started reading Crowley's interpretation of the court cards, and since he mentions the hexagrams in the I Ching, I am supplementing his interpretation with them. I find this augments their character significantly. Also, looking at elemental relationships. For instance, the King of Wands as "wind (air) and fire"......sun flares or a conflagration; the Knight of Wands as "fire of fire"... explosion...burns itself out quickly...good for one good hit only, because nothing in reserve.
 

Barleywine

I just started reading Crowley's interpretation of the court cards, and since he mentions the hexagrams in the I Ching, I am supplementing his interpretation with them. I find this augments their character significantly. Also, looking at elemental relationships. For instance, the King of Wands as "wind (air) and fire"......sun flares or a conflagration; the Knight of Wands as "fire of fire"... explosion...burns itself out quickly...good for one good hit only, because nothing in reserve.

It doesn't look like you caught up to this old thread before. The final version of the table is in Post #9. I added decan delineations from Sakoian and Acker's Astrologer's Handbook.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=259055
 

Ruby Jewel

It doesn't look like you caught up to this old thread before. The final version of the table is in Post #9. I added decan delineations from Sakoian and Acker's Astrologer's Handbook.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=259055

Thanks for this Barleywine. I can see you have captured all the relevant words. However, these days I seem to be unable to retain word lists and use them effectively in assessing a situation or personality. I am inundated with lists of words in notebooks and file folders that I have created over the years, and recently I tried to put them into one file so I could at least access them in one spot. Now I discover I don't even bother to go to the file because all the words just sort of swish around in my brain....but nothing forms from them...maybe you understand what I'm saying...but, then, you might not have this problem. I found that what I need to understand a court card is a mental picture of her or him, and how they tend to interact and react. So, with Crowley and the I Ching, Corrine Kenner, and Nancy Shavick, I wrote out a little synopsis of their personality. Here is an example of the Queen of Wands.

Queen of Wands, Water of Fire

An adaptable, persistent energy, and a calm authority which she knows how to use to enhance her attractiveness. She is kindly and generous but impatient of opposition. She has an immense capacity for friendship and for love, but always on her own initiative. She is the steamy combination of water and fire: energy, passion and heat. Seductive, simmering, sinewy, and surprisingly strong; gracious and wise, willfull and dynamic; confident and self-assured; spontaneous and hard to contain. She is impulsive, impatient, and impetuous; brave, bold, and downright brazen. She has a warrior spirit: driven and direct. She takes aggressive action and asserts herself in sudden and energetic bursts.

Her negative aspects are a self-complacent vanity and snobbery. She has a tendency to brood and come to wrong decisions, and then react with a great savagery, stupidity and obstinancy. She may be quick to take offense and harbor revenge without good cause.

Because of her impulsive character, aligned with a strong intuition, she tends to blurt out at people who feel victimized by her natural fiery sharpness. She battles all problems with complete strength, though her fearlessness is misunderstood by those she intimidates with her extraverted personality. This passioinate and aggressive female wants to help other people although she appears to be fighting those who cross her path. Her battle is with constricting and restricting forces and rules. She inspires creativity in everyone, but even though she may seem critical and sarcastic, this is just an aspect of her outspokeness. Her intentions are not to wound or injure, but by acting this way she rouses one into passionate action.

In the I Ching, she belongs with the 17th hexagram, Following. She accepts subordination, and by placing herself beneath the weaker yielding, she is followed by the whole world. Her lesson is to learn the meaning of the time of following. It is the fundamental principle that one must, first of all, follow in the right way if one would be followed. She succeeds and finds joyousness by following the law of nature....by learning to follow in order to lead.