The Pillars

mac22

the pillars

TemperanceAngel said:
You will find in Racheal Pollacks, 78 Degrees of Wisdom she chats a bit, well quite a lot about it, it is also one of the common images that I point out to my students when we go through the Majors, it helps them see how all the cards connect to each other ;)
XTAX

That scrying mirror working good, eh? :p

Cuz I was just scoping that out in her book..:) hehe...
 

Vincent

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Pillars

mac22 said:
Vincent said:
Then it is quite surprising that Waite should say of the Hierophant;

"He wears the triple crown and is seated between two pillars, but they are not those of the Temple which is guarded by the High Priestess"

If you want to understand Waite, you really should read Waite.
Vincent
[/QUOTE

Waite was both a Mason & a Mage do the pillars in the Hierophant represent J & B [Jachin & Boaz] no. But do they represent the division between the outer & inner wisdom... in my experience .. yes. The pillars represent several different dualities & dichotomies

When you say "... in my experience", what exactly does that mean?

Why do you believe they are the same?

Waite explicitly says that these two sets of pillars are not the same.

He also makes a further distinction between the two;

"He is the ruling power of external religion, as the High Priestess is the prevailing genius of the esoteric, withdrawn power."

These two concepts are almost opposites

The pillars of the Temple in the High Priestess card are representative not only of the pillars of the Temple of Solomon, but also of the pillars on the Tree of Life, which you can see in the Veil behind her.

They are clearly different from the pillars on the Hierophant card, and there is a reason why they are different.

...And yes I've read the ponderous Waite, as well as most of the major & minor occultists of the 19th & 20th centuries. [/B]

He's not always easy to understand, but if you want to understand his deck you have no choice but to study it.



Vincent
 

mac22

the pillars

In my experience means simply that... in my experience dealing with thousands & thousands of tarot spreads & clients in the last 25+ years.

I never said the pillars were identical in the 2 cards... In fact I went to pains to note that even Waite was aware of both the similarities & the differences.

It's easy to quote Waite or others..It's a bit more difficult to state your own beliefs & WHY you believe them.

I stand by my reply to the iinitial post. And even Waite was far too wise a Mason, Mage, Rosicrusian & occultist to assume that any of the symbols of the Tarot has/had a single interpretation/meaning.

There are other folks on this forum as well as respected authors who agree there is more than a single meaning to the pillars...
 

TemperanceAngel

If a symbol only had one meaning it wouldn't be a symbol ;)

I, personally, like to read books about such topics, but come to Aeclectic to hear peoples opinions and comments. It's always great to hear a quote fron an author that you have never heard before too :)

Keep your thoughts coming....XTAX
 

mac22

the pillars

TemperanceAngel said:
If a symbol only had one meaning it wouldn't be a symbol ;)

I, personally, like to read books about such topics, but come to Aeclectic to hear peoples opinions and comments. It's always great to hear a quote fron an author that you have never heard before too :)

Agreed. I'm finding this forum very useful.

Keep your thoughts coming....XTAX [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks ...will do....:)

Since Vincent seems to like quotes from Waite's _Pictorial Key to the Tarot_ thought I'd oblige..:) "The true Tarot is symbolism; it speaks no other language and offers no other signs. Given the inward meaning of its emblems, they do become a kind of alphabet which is capable of indefinite combinations and makes true sense in all."
 

poivre

Does this mean that the two people chained with the Devil
symbolize another pillar?

I have read that these are the two people in the Lovers that chained themselves to their wrong choices.

VI Lovers & XVDevil both numbers are 6 XV=15=1+5=6
 

Indigo Rose

ros said:
Does this mean that the two people chained with the Devil
symbolize another pillar?

I have read that these are the two people in the Lovers that chained themselves to their wrong choices.

VI Lovers & XVDevil both numbers are 6 XV=15=1+5=6

I am not sure of the connection of the pillars to the Lovers and Devil card, but I DO AGREE with the concept that the Lovers are chained to wrong choices in the Devil card.


Blessings,
Indigo Rose
 

mac22

the pillars

ros said:
Does this mean that the two people chained with the Devil
symbolize another pillar?

I have read that these are the two people in the Lovers that chained themselves to their wrong choices.

VI Lovers & XVDevil both numbers are 6 XV=15=1+5=6

And please note the chain can be lifted over the head....
 

Indigo Rose

YES, so TRUE Mac22. We are able to escape if we choose to see that fact!
:)
 

Vincent

Re: the pillars

mac22 said:
Agreed. I'm finding this forum very useful.

Keep your thoughts coming....XTAX

Thanks ...will do....:)

Since Vincent seems to like quotes from Waite's _Pictorial Key to the Tarot_ thought I'd oblige..:) "The true Tarot is symbolism; it speaks no other language and offers no other signs. Given the inward meaning of its emblems, they do become a kind of alphabet which is capable of indefinite combinations and makes true sense in all." [/B][/QUOTE]

This cannot really be interpreted as "make up anything you want about the deck... all opinions are valid", can it?

The question asked was; are the two sets of pillars the same?

My answer was no, and I then went on to show exactly why I thought so, and this did indeed rest on quotes from Waite, who despite what you might think, is undoubtedly the best authority on the deck.

You gave the answer "yes, they are the same", and rather than using facts to support your opinion, you give the credentialist argument;

"...in my experience dealing with thousands & thousands of tarot spreads & clients in the last 25+ years."

How exactly, is experience relevant?

Some people can have 25 years experience of being incorrect.

I have no problem whatsoever with you taking any symbol from the deck and imagining it to mean whatever you might want it to mean.

If you want to think that these sets of pillars are the same, then that is fine, but that doesn't mean that Waite thought they were, especially when there is evidence to the contrary, in his own words.



Vincent