I am completely new to Lenormand

Teheuti said:

I didn't like Dorothy Kelly's book, but that's because my way of reading and using Tarot is so different.

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I feel much the same. I've had Tarot Card Combinations since it first came out in 1995 but it never squared well with my more organic style. It always felt like I was reading I Ching hexagram "judgments" without the poetic and luminous prose.

I'm in the same place Seraphina is, about to embark on the same journey. I will be following this thread with interest.

Thank you Andy for explaining about those cards and for your helpful advice, thanks to you also Mary for suggesting looking online, that makes perfect sense!

I am not going to use the Fox for work, it just doesn't sit right with me.. Like you said Andy, I would see the Fox as something being wrong!
I like the Anchor as a work card, perhaps more than the Moon... I do see how both could work though.
I like the fish as money/cash flow that feels right for me.

I will learn the Philippe Lenormand sheet as suggested, then progress.
I haven't done a Grand Tableau, I think I would find that a little daunting at the moment lol, although I have heard from others that a newbie could just dive straight in, it would be another good way to learn?

I like the fact there are "Rules" I do not see that as a hinderance, infact I like it, as with learning anything new I want structure, not wishy washy, do want you like, who cares how you read, kind of instructions!!
I want to learn to read Lenormand... Not just use a Lenormand deck

I'm going to get your book Andy and I'm quite interested in the new Caitlin book which will be out soon, I know I said I didn't like her enchanted deck, that's just a visual thing for me personally but I believe you said her meanings are similar to your own? So I'm going to have a peek inside the companion book I have and see what she says!

andybc said:

Older is not specifically traditional with the Lilies but is popular, again in those books/takes that are similar to Rana’s, but for me most of the time it just happiness. In the original suits Spades are Lilies which are not associated with ‘older’ people.

Whilst I don’t say it’s a ‘sex’ card it can show that, as it’s your progeny and shows virtue, too. Like the House the Lilies has a meaning that is affected by being above or below the significator..

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I can see maturity in this card, but I like the happiness and fulfilment meaning better, I see long lasting as another meaning, so perhaps long lasting happiness as one meaning..
I don't see sex though, I'm not sure what card to use for that!

In simply looking at the cards - with no background reading under my belt yet - the phrase "household oracle" springs to mind, much like Scott Cunningham's "household wicca" series of books (not that he called them that, of course, but it's how I always thought of them). Does Lenormand in fact excel at more prosaic, "daily-life" interpretations, in contrast to the psychlogical abstractions that often emerge during tarot readings? Or is it a case of "apples-and-oranges," with little common ground? It certainly seems to carry a lighter burden of "esoteric baggage." I think that's what is drawing me.

I tell people don't fall into the trap of having "a work" or "a sex" card.

Lilies includes sex by the fact it shows your kin and also someone's virtue or lack of. Most of the time it's just happiness, which was associated with virtue in the 18 and 19 centuries. Lilies have a long history of fertility too - and were the flower of the Bourbons, Bavarian and several other salic royal houses. If there was a specific sex card it would be your partner card! Lol. Don't throw it out just because you don't see it - there are some I never got early on but just learnt to accept.

The Ship, Moon and Anchor all deal with work in some capacity - trade and opportunties, recognition and status, and stability and aspirations respectively.

Lenormand is a construct system and the cards have very fluid simple meanings which gain more specific meaning by being close or far to the significator and Clouds and falling beside each other. You should avoid overly specific meanings as it is a dogma that will not help.

andybc said:

I tell people don't fall into the trap of having "a work" or "a sex" card.

Lenormand is a construct system and the cards have very fluid simple meanings which gain more specific meaning by being close or far to the significator and Clouds and falling beside each other. You should avoid overly specific meanings as it is a dogma that will not help.

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Hmm, yes, I feel I'm approaching this in a complicated manner, I have been concentrating a lot on having specific meanings... I need to keep it simple. Lots to learn and understand, but I'm excited at the prospect!

Lee said:

I don't mean to speak for Mary, but I don't think she meant that at all. I think she's just saying that most of the cards have a range of meanings, and in a given reading you would choose the meaning for a card based on the context of the question and associated cards (i.e. adjacent, by distance, or whatever) in the spread.

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Thank you, Lee.
I've been using Lenormands for a couple of years now and do read ''traditionally'' (learned mostly from the Treppner course), but.......

Lets say I pulled 3 cards, Heart, Mice, Bear (might as well have been part of a GT). Then the Bear is someone doing me wrong and couldn't be someone trying to be supportive and strong (to quote Mary: ''someone strong and powerful who with positive cards will aid you, but, who with negative cards near, can become envious or jealous'')?

See what I mean?

Nina* said:

Thank you, Lee.
I've been using Lenormands for a couple of years now and do read ''traditionally'' (learned mostly from the Treppner course), but.......

Lets say I pulled 3 cards, Heart, Mice, Bear (might as well have been part of a GT). Then the Bear is someone doing me wrong and couldn't be someone trying to be supportive and strong (to quote Mary: ''someone strong and powerful who with positive cards will aid you, but, who with negative cards near, can become envious or jealous'')?

See what I mean?

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Well, in those cards Nina it could be disappointment because someone won't help you. A lost sense of protection. Traditionally, the Mice steal what is to their left causing you to lose out on what is to their right. This could be mitigated by the Mice being near your card, or the Child and Bouquet. Even the Mountain far away. There is a lot more to be considered the X cards' meanings.

What Mary describes is the simple concept, the core - this is elaborated and layered in practise that cannot be always described in the written word. But there must be a framework.

Seraphina said:

Hmm, yes, I feel I'm approaching this in a complicated manner, I have been concentrating a lot on having specific meanings... I need to keep it simple. Lots to learn and understand, but I'm excited at the prospect!

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It's a fascinating tool. It takes some time to bring it all together, but it'll fascinate you enough to make it worthwhile and never a chore.

andybc said:

Well, in those cards Nina it could be disappointment because someone won't help you. A lost sense of protection. Traditionally, the Mice steal what is to their left causing you to lose out on what is to their right. This could be mitigated by the Mice being near your card, or the Child and Bouquet. Even the Mountain far away. There is a lot more to be considered the X cards' meanings.

What Mary describes is the simple concept, the core - this is elaborated and layered in practise that cannot be always described in the written word. But there must be a framework.

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Okay, I see. Thanks, Andy.
But why could Mice near my card have mitigated this loss. I'd think that Mice near my card would be bad?