Why we don't get certain Lenormands...

Though I love some new Lennie decks, esp Day of the Dead by Edmund, aka starlightexp, I too find some of the other new ones to be unnecessarily and inappropriately sexual (at least some cards are, jarringly sexual, and yes of course it is a female being posed in a Harlequin Romance kind of fashion...when even the original symbol was not a female at all!) I guess if a reader can see that the card is meant to convey "clover" or some other essentially non sexy figure on the card, while showing a half naked lady holding a clover over her heaving breasts, well more power to you, but I just don't get that. I am not a prude who is bothered by nudity or sexuality in a deck..... if a deck creator wanted to make a deck that was unabashedly sexual, and had numerous half clad women throughout the deck, well, go for it, but please don't tell me the one or two you had to include in your deck weren't meant to be sexy, that is an insult to my intelligence. Go whole hog and make it what it is, don't put a couple of oddly naked/half naked chicks in your deck for whatever purpose, while pretending you weren't going for a super sexy image....That kind of BS sets my teeth on edge.

Day of the Dead Len has the symbols clearly shown, and I never have to look twice at any of the images to know exactly which symbol I am seeing. I know it is not traditional, it is not historical, but the symbols are all clear and it's a damn cool deck.

Gee, Prudence, don't hold back!

I have Edmund's DotD and his Marseilles deck. Neither is old but both original art and both are OUTSTANDING and the only 'modern' ones I have that I can actually use.

Tag_jorrit said:

Gee, Prudence, don't hold back!

I have Edmund's DotD and his Marseilles deck. Neither is old but both original art and both are OUTSTANDING and the only 'modern' ones I have that I can actually use.

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What can I say? Some decks are a cliche in and of themselves. A completely asexual symbol being turned into a soft core porn image doesn't really help anyone to understand that image as it was meant to be read.

Then again, "sex sells". Sad but true.

prudence said:

What can I say? Some decks are a cliche in and of themselves; ie when I see them, I automatically think, the "artist" middle aged and perhaps enjoying a bit of Viagra while he creates his deck....etc etc...and there you go! A completely asexual symbol has been turned into a soft core porn image, while at the same time not really helping anyone to understand that image as it was meant to be read. Nice.

Then again, "sex sells". Sad but true.

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Yes, indeed it does. And what astounds me most is that so many people -- mostly women -- have made this unnamed, tasteless deck one of the most popular.

Tagshakingheadinwonder

When the Cloverleaf is close to the querent’s card in a reading it shows joy and, in the original meanings, an end to loneliness. Luck is a meaning I use but it's not original if you split hairs.

For this reason, it’s not uncommon to find the Cloverleaf near to the querent’s card when they are about to begin a new relationship.

The Cloverleaf is not however part of the love-card groupings (Heart, Ring, Anchor) but it can strengthen a weak Anchor or Heart and mitigate a Ring being on the left.

The Lenormand cards I struggle with are those that are far too big to lay out a GT with in a small space. Also, when you're trying to see ratios and what is dexter or influencing too detailed images do not help

I read layouts a little differently than you do, Andybc, but I get your meanings here.

But however one sees the meaning, the image is important to me as the CLOVER. For me Lenormand isn't just how one may read a layout exactly or what meanings one may use for a certain card, because sometimes I see a card with one meaning, sometimes with another, but that I can RECOGNIZE the symbol easily.

I have kind of the opposite problem regarding the size. I like three card spreads and I like to be able to see the cards easily on my reading table, so I prefer larger size cards. I can't imagine trying to do a Grand Tableau on my little reading table with them though! I can so get why readers like minis when doing large spreads!

Speaking of whether we choose to get a Lenormand or not, I do think it's great many designers either come up with a couple sizes, including minis or do a bridge or poker size, which while not optimal for readers doing GT's probably, at least work better than larger tarot size?

I do agree with you, that's why I tend to rotate between two very sparse decks (Dondorf and Jeu Lenormand).

When it comes to meanings I don't work with absolute definitions aside from their proximity definitions. That was how the cards' meanings were decided, originally. These are very loose, however, such as Cloverleaf being a sign of joy and companionship. What type will only be shown by what it is with and its theme partners.

I would quite like to see a slightly larger Dondorf. Kongsfurt did a good job restoring theirs but I would like the old pips back.

Tag_jorrit said:

Yes, indeed it does. And what astounds me most is that so many people -- mostly women -- have made this unnamed, tasteless deck one of the most popular.

Tagshakingheadinwonder

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Well, there are many unnamed decks that fit this category for me. As a woman who has resided on this planet for as many decades as I have so far, I can honestly say that I am sick and tired of the gratuitous and constant sexual objectification of my gender in any and all forms of media. (tarot, Lenormand, oracle decks plus tv and movies etc) Yes, when this kind of silly crap is thrown into a deck that truly does not need it (ie a Lenormand), and actually hampers the message, I am going to call it out. I thought I was doing that here, in a generic and hypothetical way. If that is infantile or crass so be it, but I have a feeling those who would declare it so, might have their own personal pet peeves/crosses to bear in these same kind of areas, but as long as it doesn't hit their own personal last nerve, then it must be okay and accepted. Perhaps women are the last group to have a right to be pissed and honest when we see fit.

I also don't like a Lennie to be too dark or obscure in the symbol being conveyed, and if it is obscured by a neon sign proclaiming "HOT GIRLS< NAKED" then yeah, I am going to get that message all screwed up in my reading.