Thoth Nine of Disks - whose effigies are stamped on the six coins?

I should love this thread to be a thorough study thread on this card.

For now, my curiosity burns to know what is depicted on the six coins. (the other three disks are spheres).

The Book of Thoth says "These may be marked with the magical images of the appropriate planets"

But these are (mostly) human portraits, (as far as I can make out) - not planetary symbols. Or perhaps they are portaits with the planetary symbols built into them.

The bottom coin looks like a portait of a lady, wearing the moon for hair.

Above her, I see a sort of horned man, is it mercury?, and to his right, an Apollo like youth with a cross at his neck.

I am particularly stumped by the three on top.

The upper right coin looks like a sort of helmetted king, but when the card is reversed, it looks distinctly like a ship in full sail.

Does anyone have the inside scoop?

Suggestion--this link might make some sense

Your description of some of the coins reminded me of a Book of Thoth summary site. Because your guesses sound as if you already are on the right track with astrological sources, I thought you might enjoy checking out the link at the bottom of this summary--I only have two more minutes before leaving for work, so I was only able to locate this link. Every time I glanced at a coin/disk/pentacle reference, there was a bit about an astrology assignment. If a bottom coin is Venus, that might match in how Crowley describes his coins:

The Nine of Disks is called Gain. The suit of Disks is much too dull to care; it reckons up its winnings; it does not worry its head about whether anything is won when all is won. This card is ruled by Venus. It purrs with satisfaction at having harvested what it sowed; it rubs its hands and sits at ease. As will be understood from the consideration of the Tens, there is no reaction against satisfaction as there is in the other three suits. One becomes more and more stolid, and feels that "everything is for the best in the best of all possible worlds".

http://www.choronzon.com/brainwav/thoth/thoth4.htm

I hope someone can check out Lon Duquette's book for you on the Crowley Thoth or has a better link that names the elusive coin effigies!

Regards,

Cerulean

Hi firemaiden, you're on the right track w/the moon. The rest of the coins also encorporate astrological glyphs.

Moving clockwise from the moon:
mercury
mars
saturn
jupiter
venus

firemaiden said:

I should love this thread to be a thorough study thread on this card.

For now, my curiosity burns to know what is depicted on the six coins. (the other three disks are spheres).

The Book of Thoth says "These may be marked with the magical images of the appropriate planets"

But these are (mostly) human portraits, (as far as I can make out) - not planetary symbols. Or perhaps they are portaits with the planetary symbols built into them.

The bottom coin looks like a portait of a lady, wearing the moon for hair.

Above her, I see a sort of horned man, is it mercury?, and to his right, an Apollo like youth with a cross at his neck.

I am particularly stumped by the three on top.

The upper right coin looks like a sort of helmetted king, but when the card is reversed, it looks distinctly like a ship in full sail.

Does anyone have the inside scoop?

Click to expand...

The coins are marked, as Crowley says, with the magical images of the planets. These are different from the astrological glyphs for the planets.

The subject of Magical images and figures can get very complex, but basically, as Dion Fortune says;

"A magical figure is the coat of arms of the force it represents"

For a detailed look at magical figures, Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabalah is quite good.


Vincent

delete

Vincent said:

The coins are marked, as Crowley says, with the magical images of the planets. These are different from the astrological glyphs for the planets.

The subject of Magical images and figures can get very complex, but basically, as Dion Fortune says;

"A magical figure is the coat of arms of the force it represents"

For a detailed look at magical figures, Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabalah is quite good.


Vincent

Click to expand...

Vincent, you are a font of expertise, as usual, thank you.

These effigies do look like coats of arms. Have you seen these same images in other contexts?

Aha!!

Vincent you gave me the important clue...

Here is a website Giordano Bruno's Planetary Images with text from Giordano Bruno's De Umbris Idearum -- The Shadows of Ideas, (Paris, 1582), desribing different magical images for the planets.

Don't shoot me (I'm just the messenger)

Although Gerd Ziegler's book _Mirror of the Soul_ is an intuitive approach to the Thoth deck and is by no means authoritative on what Crowley and/or Harris had in mind, I thought that, purely for the sake of fun, I'd look up what Ziegler has to say on effigies in the Thoth 9 of Disks.

pages 173 and 174:

"In this painting, Frieda Harris portrayed the three-way relationship between herself, Crowley, and his friend Israel Regardie. The six planet figures bear their three faces."

... "Crowley's face appears on Saturn and Jupiter."

... "Regardie's head appears on Mars and Mercury ...."

... "Harris painted her own face on the Moon and Venus."

I wonder where Ziegler came up with this explanation. Certainly nothing in the Harris exhibit write-up on the 9 of Disks [see my post below] suggests this.

From Harris, in the exhibit catalogue, on the 9 of Disks:

"Gain. Venus in Virgo. Yesod.

"Six disks stamped with the pictures of the deities of the planets form two equilateral triangles and the remaining three are interlaced in the middle. These with their beams of light show a condition in which chance and management give an increasing good fortune."

firemaiden said:

These effigies do look like coats of arms. Have you seen these same images in other contexts?

Click to expand...

Magical images are an important part of practical Qabalah, and as such they are highly personal. You must first acquaint yourself, usually by meditation, with all symbols associated with the force you wish to make an image of, which might be astrological, or associated with a particular path or sephira on the Tree of Life. Then you use this insight to craft the image.

For instance, if you wished to make a magical image of Mercury, you might well visualise and meditate on the astrological glyph of Mercury, the symbolic meaning of the petasus, talaria and caduceus. Maybe you would also meditate on the element of Mercury (Hg), and perhaps the qabalistic magical image of Hod, (associated with Hermes/Mercury) which is an hermaphrodite. Also the colours, musical note and Hebrew letter associations could be taken into account.Then after meditating on all of these symbols separately, and holistically, you would then synthesise your knowledge and insight, and craft your image.

It is likely that these images would all be fairly recognisable as images of what they are supposed to represent, but as you can imagine, your image would not be the same as mine, and as magicians are a secretive bunch, you would most likely not get to see it. So, in answer to your question, no I haven't seen these particular images elsewhere, but that is not really surprising.

What might be a more interesting question is whose images are they... Crowley's or Harris'?


Vincent