A Challenge

Minderwiz

Ronia said:
To me, without any further digging, Saturn retrograde in the 6th is just a problem. More so opposing Venus in the 12th. And in general, dynamic 6/12 with a heavy planet involved, especially retro is a bad sign. I've been looking in three charts recently, all belong to friends, all have Saturn in 5th retro, and all can't have children, for different reasons. One has no medical issues but something always goes wrong with partners. He's approaching 50 and starting to lose hope. Second has no medical issues but ehr partner does, she loves him, doesn't want to separate, he doesn't want to treat himself and argues with doctors. Third has medical issues and can't resolve them for now even with today's medicine. Three different stories but the result is the same. So, to me, Saturn retro has proven to be quite tough wherever he is in the chart. This man has him in the 6th, and if we take traditional rulership of Saturn over the Ascendant which happens to represent the overall well being of a person to me, including body, things don't look very well. Mars retro is conjunct the 8th cusp, not a good sign either, inconjunct the Sun which to me represents the person's vitality and self, even worse. However, based only on the natal chart, I doubt I'd have seen him dying young, I'd have seen the health issues. But I'm one of those who believes death is generally beyond our senses, in all kinds of divination and I don't try to predict it, ever.

Yes a better choice of words would be that I was 'not surprised' to see that he died young given the condition of Saturn and Mars. However the availability of good medical techniques can indeed make a major difference to the actuality (or lack of it) of death compared to the potential of death - which I, if any one, should know LOL.

However, that being said, Wadlow died as transiting Mars, was about to perfect the conjunction with natal Saturn, in a Scorpio/Leo/Aries/Scorpio period in terms of Releasing from Fortune. - that's Mars/Sun/Mars/Mars plus transiting Mars. The Lot of Fortune having relevance to what befalls the body

Ronia

Minderwiz said:
Yes a better choice of words would be that I was 'not surprised' to see that he died young given the condition of Saturn and Mars. However the availability of good medical techniques can indeed make a major difference to the actuality (or lack of it) of death compared to the potential of death - which I, if any one, should know LOL.

I think we all agree that the potential of death is the one and only sure thing in life. LOL I mean, what chart will lack it? On a serious note, I've stopped trying to judge death on charts, cards, etc. just because I've seen many times signs it should happen and it didin't and the other way around. IMHO, of course. But health issues I can see in his chart. I also wonder if the sextile Jpiter/Saturn would suport the tumor (and growth)... But truth is, many charts have it and none of them I relate to tumors (thankfully!).

Minderwiz said:
However, that being said, Wadlow died as transiting Mars, was about to perfect the conjunction with natal Saturn, in a Scorpio/Leo/Aries/Scorpio period in terms of Releasing from Fortune. - that's Mars/Sun/Mars/Mars plus transiting Mars. The Lot of Fortune having relevance to what befalls the body

Yes, transits, progressions, directions and not last the SR should give more clues, in my opinion. On the other hand, what's not given or rejected in the natal, never comes to pass, right? It's complicated because we're looking at one chart here but I bet majority of people didn't die during similar or same transits. So, it all takes more than we're given to know, IMHO.

I've also developed quite a scepticism towards all these time periods and Time Lords, Minderwiz. You know, I tried to check each important event in my life and relate to them and while, in retrospective (which is much easier) one can sometime find some relation, truth is at least 50% of them are lottery playing. This year one Loose of bond produced an unpleasant event but that was it for the whole year. Some of these Loose of bond were supported by transits and progressions which doesn't happent that often, nothing came out of them. So, overall, I'm not very sure they work at all. Or when and why they work or don't work.

I've also tried releasing and results are pretty much the same, 50/50. I'll try releasing from Fortune for my pregnancy, see what hapens, although to me the Jupiter/Asc and Mars/Mars in 6th was far more telling + the SR. And last but not least, my own will because no transits can force a person to do something they don't want to do, we have enough tools today to rule our lives to a big extend. Of course, excluding force major
events.

With transits, return charts, progressions and directions, taken all together, I think results are more visible, IMHO.

P.S. Oh well, next significant Loose of Bond (L3 and L4) is, how appropriate!, on Dec 24th. LOL I'll report if Santa happens to forget his whole bag at home.

Activating natal Sun (Leo rules L3/4) and Saturn who is in Leo in the 7th, natally squaring each other, Saturn approaching the North Node by transit (sadly he didn't produce anything conjuncting the MC). Saturn in Leo in the 7th is the perfect description (and has always been) of the "letter man". LOL So, I'm definitely browsing the neighbourhood and downtown towards Boxing Day.

There, something to look forward to.

Minderwiz

The Other Planets

I've looked briefly at some planets, especially the roles of Mercury and Venus - briefly for the rest:

Moon The Sect Light, in her own sign of Cancer but unfortunately placed in the sixth place. The Moon is not configured to the Ascendant, so her influence is not easy to bring to bear, even though the Moon has also signification for Life and the physical body (which is why the Lot of Fortune is sometimes referred to as the Lot of the Moon). She can signify the Mother - literally, so this placement could be seen as indicating something about Wadlow's mother. The Moon is also a significator of the animal, insitinctive or not rational mind - and in her own sign that is strong but he might not trust his own instincts because of the lack of configuration. The Moon is square to Mars, her Trigon Lord, and trines the Sun (an overcoming trine).

Sun The out of sect Light. The Sun brings light to the mind according to Valens. It is connected to that part of the mind that is concerned with perceiving, thinking, feeling, deciding - the part that is noos in Greek, or the English word nous. Thus the overcoming sextile from the Moon may well indicate that his instincts may overcome his 'understanding', something he was not comfortable with. The Sun is connected to activity and 'business' - our active, public life. It can also signify the father. Wadlow's Sun is also in aversion to the Ascendant, meaning that he can't easily realise these areas in his life. The Sun is ruled by Jupiter, to which it's connected by square.

Jupiter is in Detriment in Gemini, so whilst it is configured to the Sun, there will still be difficulties for his expression of these principles. The square forms a connection between the affairs of the second (livelihood) with the affairs of the fifth (fun, entertainment, leisure, enjoyment). In modern terms, Wadlow became part of the 'entertainment business' and this had a mildly positive effect on his life (Jupiter is the out of sect benefic). Jupiter signifies friendship, alliances, children, the act of childbirth itself, higher esoteric knowledge, and feelings of having adequate resources and being well balanced. Given its Detriment these areas are likely to be diminished. As well as being connected to the Sun by square, Jupiter is configured to the Ascendant, Mercury and Venus by Trine, though the latter two are dominant in the configuration. Jupiter therefore has some signification for his life and body. Jupiter is sextile to the Ascendant ruler Saturn (now in the inferior position). He might find that his friendships are for what he is, rather than who he is, people who want to exploit him or simply be associated with him. The affliction of Jupiter by Saturn reduces what Jupiter can provide. Schmidt sees this relationship as 'Jupiter proposes something apparently good and Saturn agrees, to the detriment of the topic (in this case his life). From a modern perspective Jupiter signifies growth - was Wadlow's height to the detriment of his body? Lastly Jupiter trines Mars, the malefic of sect.

Mars in Detriment in Libra and Retrograde in the ninth place. Mars signifies bodily strength - a weak Mars therefore signifying weak bodily strength. Mars can signify intimacy, strife, violence abuse, estrangement, captivity and crippling. . For Valens, Saturn rules the legs, so the sextile to Mars (again Mars is in the inferior position) indicates a threat to the legs - Wadlow needed braces and his legs were his most vulnerable area - his eventual death was due to blistering and infection in his ankles leading to infection (Mars), blood transfusions (Mars) and emergency surgery (Mars).

Ronia

Minderwiz said:
Jupiter signifies friendship, alliances, children, the act of childbirth itself,

Really? First time to hear about Jupiter and children and childbrith. Wow. I mean, I always take him into consideration with pregnancy due to obvious reasons but chldren and childbirth... Just learned something.

From what I understand his growth was due to a tumor which gives the oppostie perspective - Jupiter influenced Saturn, no?

Minderwiz

The connection with childbirthand children comes from Valens but a number of Hellenistic writers connected children with the eleventh as well as the fifth. Even Lilly takes Lord XI into account when considering children and fertility, as well as the fifth.

The eleventh is the joy of Jupiter, so I think that Jupiter's link with children must date right back.

I've seen Jupiter on the charts of Cancer patients but with links to Mars or Saturn

Ronia

Thanks for that clarification. For some reason to me the 11th is a second child. I must have had a premonition.

Jupiter has a link to Saturn here.