natal chart vs. life experience

Tallarico

Hi all,

My question; When I look at my natal chart (just signs and planets, sometimes w/houses) without including aspects (because I am a beginner/novice), I often don't seem like I should be, according to the chart! I wonder how much does life experience change us from the natal chart or does it not and I am missing something?

Leo Sun, Asc
Aries Moon
Cancer Merc
Gemini Venus
Virgo Mars

Thanks,
Karen
 

dadsnook2000

A quick reply

If you can't identify with your chart, based on the statement made, I would suspect three areas to investigate.

FIRST, there is the possibility that your Ascendant degree is wrong. This could be due to confusion over the time zone in effect at the place you were born or the recorded birth time is incorrect.

SECOND, you may have been born in one location and then have moved to your present location where you have either lived for a long period of time or where you strongly have identified with. This would, in effect, give you a new birth location.

THIRD, your aspect patterns may be highly significant, so much so that the text-book description of signs and houses are not as appropriate. You need to look for conjunctions, square and oppositions primarily.

Dave.
 

Tallarico

Hi Dave

Thanks for your help!
Well, I know my birth time is correct. : )
I've had a natal done 3 times by diff ppl, every program and website says Leo. Even with the Daylight savings time fiasco! (I hate it)
I was born in Kansas, however Dad was in the Airforce, then flew for TWA, so I moved quite a bit, (12 times by age 12!)
So I could check the birth chart using NJ where I live now...



While I am alot like a Leo and look like one, not much like an AriesI tend to be more like a Cancer in social situations! Perhaps Mercury explains that. And also like a Cancer when I have been wronged...

Do year progression charts affect your mood/behavior/attitude?
Karen
 

Minderwiz

As Dave has pointed out it's possible that re-location has had an effect and there is a school of thought in Astrology that argues relocation has the effect of altering the chart (the planets remain in their natal positions but the houses alter - as the Ascendant is dependent on your birth location.

The birth chart shows potential at birth - it is possible to work with the challenges and adapt your behaviour - the birth chart is not a predestination.

It seems that the charts you have had done are accurate, however if you wish to post your birth details

time (hh/mm)
Date (dd/mm/yyyy)
and place (location)

Dave or I or one of the others can have a look to see if there is any clear reason why the chart does not 'work'
 

Tallarico

Ok, I guess I could... : )
meanwhile I'll check it out in my current location and see what I get. (on a website)


August 1, 1961
5:11 am
Salina, Kansas
(Saline County, USA)

Thanks!

WoW: edited to add: I went to alabe.com for a free chart and put in my data. I got Cancer rising, and a few different planet/house positions.
I live now in Toms River, NJ USA.

I find this so fascinating! I didn't know things could change depending on (house) moves and things!
 

Minderwiz

Well the issue of a relocation is debatable, though I must admit I find the subject fascinating.


If the move has an effect it is at the level of Houses in your chart - the Sun sign / Moon sign, etc are still the same.

Edited to add: If you take your present location the Ascendant does indeed shift into Cancer. Moreover if there is a twenty minute error in your birth time (sooner rather than later) you would also have a Cancer Ascendant, even in Kansas.

It is sometimes possible that the birth time entered on a birth certificate is the time when there was an opportunity to enter up the details of the birth rather than the actual time of birth. If you haven't already its worth checking with your parents.
 

Tallarico

Thanks Minderwiz

Altho it is on the BC as 5:11 AM, I will still check!
 

dadsnook2000

A few considerations

Tallarico, I've run charts for you relative to Salina, KA and Toms River, NJ. The Salina, KA birth chart has an Ascendant of 3 Leo 59 with an MC of 21 Aries 36. The Toms River, NJ location has an Ascendant of 22 Leo 58 and an MC of15 Tarus 50.

The Saliana, KS birth chart has the Asc bracketed by the Sun (in the first) and Mercury in the 12th. The Toms River, NJ chart has Uranus on the Asc. So, one question is, "Do you feel that you now express Sun/Mercury or Uranus characteristics in your personality and in your environment. The answer will be more a matter of degree rather than inclusive/exclusive characteristics.

As for the aspects in your chart -- remember that I had noted a possibility that your aspect patterns could overshadow houses and signs in their expression. Afterall, the "planets" are energy.

MAJOR ASPECT PATTERNS:

Mercury tightly opposed to Saturn, Saturn trine Mars, and Mars in a loose sextile to Mercury (considered here only because of the oppositon and trine). Perceptions and their interpretation and meaning are questioned as to how to categorize them. Rules have to be considered; how will others react? The wider oppositon to Jupiter (which conjoins Saturn) may make this cautionary approach a little less structured, more subject to variables depending upon what the situation is. Do you cover your butt most of the time, but loosen up in other situations?

Sun trines Moon and squares Neptune. This particular trine brings a sense of "honesty" to it. The regal sun likes to be admired and in situations where you can sit on a pedestal and be admired, but there is a basic self confidence in this -- people know that you work for what you get. The Sun square Neptune can either seek to dramatize your image and personality or can make you hard to understand in terms of your needs and vision.

WHICH CHART DO YOU WANT TO FIT INTO?
The above statements having been made (intended to get a reaction out of you AND to intensify possible expressions so that we can see how/where they fit), we can now look at your birth location and your current location.

Does the Sun/Mercury-at-the-Ascendant thing (strong self-expression, clear speech and sunny/talkative aspects express themselves? This would suggest the birth chart being strong. Did you have any unique friends, friends with unusual businesses or achievements in Kansas? Does the Uranus/Ascendant thing (strong willed, sudden impuliveness, liking for colors and new experiences) seem more like you? If so, your current location chart may be stronger. Mars trine the Toms River MC and Saturn inconjunct the Uranus-and-Ascendant points could show up -- Energy seems to work better in NJ in terms of achievement and personal vision, greater care is taken in terms of what is said, what is agreed to.

These statements need to be considered before we can look at the chart as a whole. Many of the aspect patterns are "islands unto themselves" -- meaning that the personality has chunks rather than a blended whole. There isn't an overly clear aspect pattern that seems to dominate and provide a focus. We'll have to wait untill you can tell us which of these complex patterns seems to be more obvious within you. Dave.
 

Tallarico

wow Dave, Thanks! You are so knowledgeable. I have to reread and think...I'll post again.
 

Tallarico

I'm going to make this more confusing...

for me atleast...

I fall in the middle...

Does the Sun/Mercury-at-the-Ascendant thing (strong self-expression, clear speech and sunny/talkative aspects express themselves?

strong self expression, yes, clear speech, yes.
sunny/talkative, no

This would suggest the birth chart being strong.

Does the Uranus/Ascendant thing (strong willed, sudden impuliveness, liking for colors and new experiences)...

strong willed, yes, colors (deep dark rich tones) yes
impulsive, no
new experiences yes and no!

Perhaps I am somewhere in the middle? Is that possible?
I think life experience has taught me caution...I used to very very impulsive...I have never been overly sunny...somewhat shy at times...

yes I cover my butt and then yes I loosen up!


Sun trines Moon and squares Neptune. This particular trine brings a sense of "honesty" to it. The regal sun likes to be admired and in situations where you can sit on a pedestal and be admired, but there is a basic self confidence in this -- people know that you work for what you get. The Sun square Neptune can either seek to dramatize your image and personality or can make you hard to understand in terms of your needs and vision.

Oh so true...the part about being admired but I am not dramatic, I am hard to understand in terms of need and vision!

Dave am I shedding any light? Can I be a combination, or perhaps it is aspects I need to look into?

Karen