Eliot: Wasteland?

Hedera

jmd said:
Eliot's The Wasteland is often incorporated in various poetry compilations - thus find it hard to believe that it is out of print.


Yes, I know. I was (not thinking) looking for it in a separate volume, didn't realize it's probably too short for that.
Thank you for the hyperlink! it even has annotations and everything!

"the wasteland is the only famous poem i can think of that uses tarot as imagery even though there may be more."

...Do you know of any prose (apart from the obvious, calvino etc)?
I did read 'Gut Symmetries' by Jeanette Winterson, but didn't enjoy it much. Since I'm sort of toying with the idea of incorporating it as a plot device myself, I'm curious what i'm up against.

:) Hedera
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Hedera

P.S:

There are some wonderful books by Tim Powers (Last Call, Expiration Date) that have lots and lots of symbolism and imagery in it, most of it not really tarot, but really, really interesting and extremely entertaining and fun (in a rather unwholesome way).
He does incorporate the 'Fisher King' idea heavily in these books, which I liked, because it is the way I tend to look at the King of pentacles.
And he has based entire plots around the outcome of a poker game.

Hedera
 

Khatruman

Sincerest apologies

truthsayer said:
i feel embarrassed and my feelings are kind of hurt b/c i feel like you are implying i don't understand this poem. i haven't taught it but i studied it intensively as an undergrad and even wrote a paper on it comparing it to images used in f. scott fitzgerald's "the great gatsby".

i doubt you meant to hurt my feelings but that's just how i took it. i'm probably being too sensitive.
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If my response in any way implied that message, I am deeply sorry. That was in no way my inference. What I was trying to do was expand upon your observation, which in fact was insightful to me. I was still addressing the original request to study the poem further and was trying to add some of my own understandings of the poem.

In many ways, I feel like a dummy when it comes to poetry. It takes me quite a while to find what the message is, though in understanding the musicality of words, I have gained further insight into the form in general.

I would love to hear about your insights into the similarity of images in Gatsby and the WasteLand... I never thought of comparing them, but after your mention of it here, so many parallels are coming to mind. The roaring twenties were all about "things falling apart" (to quote Yeats, whom I studied in a course which focused on Eliot and Yeats). Actually, hearing your observations may give me a deeper appreciation of Gatsby, which never really resonated with me.

Again, I am sorry for the implication of my words. Having read your posts many times through the boards, I see you as anything BUT unknowledgeable!!!

Peace!
 

truthsayer

thank-you, khatruman. i thought you probably felt that way but i have found that if i don't express it when i feel hurt then i collect resentment until i know for sure. i feel a lot better. i'll take off list any wasteland/gatsby observations since it has little to do with this thread. i need to review gatsby to remember the exact places the symbolism was used. i take out wasteland every now and then and review it b/c it was one of the poems i first read that poetry came to life for me. i like the idea of discussing these ideas in more depth. the old me coming back to life. :)

you're not the only one who often feels like a dummy when it comes to poetry. i'm taking a creative writing course right now with one of the most incredible writing teachers i've ever had. he has a way of literally making poetry come alive for me. i've been amazed with the improvement in my own writing since i started following his advice. i only taught a brief time before i decided i was too shy and nervous to work in the classroom so i then became a counselor. i really miss analyzing literature and making it come to life in my imagination. studying art now has actually helped revivify my interest in literature. perhaps since i'm nearly 20 years older than i was when i tried teaching i could look at getting my teaching license again. i only want to teach lit and art though! :) i am not too good with grammar! LOL
 

catboxer

You can see the entire text of "The Wasteland" on line at Bartleby.com. Just use the site's built-in search engine. The part that usually interests tarotists the most is:

"Madame Sosostris, famous clairvoyante,
Had a bad cold, nevertheless
Is known to be the wisest woman in Europe,
With a wicked pack of cards. Here, said she,
Is your card, the drowned Phoenician Sailor,
(Those are pearls that were his eyes. Look!)
Here is Belladonna, the Lady of the Rocks,
The lady of situations.
Here is the man with three staves, and here the Wheel,
And here is the one-eyed merchant, and this card,
Which is blank, is something he carries on his back,
Which I am forbidden to see. I do not find
The Hanged Man. Fear death by water.
I see crowds of people, walking round in a ring.
Thank you. If you see dear Mrs. Equitone,
Tell her I bring the horoscope myself:
One must be so careful these days"

Needless to say, don't entrust your horoscope to anyone.
 

Khatruman

Just to add to catboxer's quote, T.S. Eliot footnoted his own poem and put in this note regarding his use of the tarot:
I am not familiar with the exact constitution of the Tarot pack of cards, from which I have obviously departed to suit my own convenience. The Hanged Man, a member of the traditional pack, fits my purpose in two ways: because he is associated in my mind with the Hanged God of Frazer (this is a reference to the book The Golden Bough which was a major influence in the poem--my note), and because I associate him with the hooded figure in the passage of the disciples to Emmaus in Part V. The Phoenician Sailor and the Merchant appear later; also the 'crowds of people', and Death by Water is executed in Part IV. The Man with Three Staves (an authentic member of the Tarot pack) I associate, quite arbitrarily, with the Fisher King himself.
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Just thought this might be interesting since rarely do poets give us insights as to their use of allusions and references.
The poem itself is available at Bartleby.com
Peace!
 

Rhianna

Tarot in Literature

Hi there Hedera (and anyone else interested),

If you are interested in reading about the tarot in other works, there is a website that a person has been putting together that lets you know which books have references to tarot. The site is: www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/2282/tarot/tarlit.htm

Hope this is what you are looking for.

Rhianna
 

Rhianna

website didn't post correctly again

I am sorry. I'm not sure what is wrong with it but I will post what is after the acropolis part:


acropolis/2282/tarot/tarlit/htm

Sorry about that.

Rhianna
 

Hedera

Thank you Rhianna!

Very interesting page....
Leads to great budget conflicts: books with tarot in them? or tarot decks?

;) Hedera.

Or both, ofcourse...! :D
 
new Dorothy Morrison tarot book W. Bayer's "Tarot" novel