XVII- The Star. Hello, my Beauty!

Owl Tarot

And welcome folks, welcome- to The Star! Here we have one of those cards that are considered to be the "best"! Now, I can hear those few of you who actually read my threads (thank you for it!) and the even fewer who respond from time to time (Thank you even more, as you gave me things which I contemplated upon). As some of you already know, I decided to start weekly threads about some of the thoughts and interpretations, as they come to me the moment I am writing, of the Trump I am currently studying. It is the third time I undergo this process (of weekly Trump study I mean) because in the previous two I gained further insight about the cards so I decided to follow this process yet again, only this time I decided to post a few of my thoughts about! Also, I am in no manner the "One True Master" of Tarot, I would rather say I have learned from my work, I am learning and I will be learning more and more and I try to share some of my opinions and experiences in my not so popular threads. Anyone willing and available to provide some thoughts and opinions back for me to work and contemplate about would be appreciated, and I hope that those few of my thoughts are helpful to you!

Keep in mind that I am biased and passionate about this card- Wait, don't start asking me which card I am not biased or passionate about, since I luv them a lot, all of dem- BUT- there are events in my life that make me adore The Star in a more special way. And no, it is not simple because it's a generally favourite card (I personally don't have one favourite) but for far deeper reasons.

XVII- The Star

Zodiacal Trump of Aquarius. Ruled by Uranus (in modern Astrology) and by Saturn (if you prefer to play with the Planets of the Ancients)

15th Path, connecting Chokmah to Tiphareth. Hebrew letter: He (Window)

Okay, I would like to start with a subject which is always in fashion: The switching of the Paths of The Emperor and The Star. Crowley made that switch to fulfill a very particular "order" given to him in Liber AL vel Legis, and, in particular:
Liber AL said:
All these old letters of my Book are aright; but [Tzaddi] is not the Star. This also is secret: my prophet shall reveal it to the wise.

To start of with, He is a feminine letter both by shape and by meaning, while Tzaddi, to which this particular Trump was assosiated with, is a far more masculine letter meaning fish hook. So, the beautiful Lady of the Stars is far better fitting to a window then she is to a fish hook and vice-versa, the Emperor, a member of the triplicity of the more masculine cards is also far more fit for a fish hook, and also a letter with a more masculine shape. Other then that, the unbalance caused to the Zodiac circle by the Golden Dawn's switch of Strength (Lust) and Justice (Adjustment) formed a oO type of shape in the Zodiac circle which became more of a Caduceus-DNA shape after Crowley switched around the signs on the opposite side of the circle, meaning Aries (The Emperor) and Aquarius (The Star). This is pretty important to consider in my opinion. On the nature of the change, Crowley tells us pretty clearly:

The Book of Thoth said:
The Ruach is centred in the airy Sephira, Tiphareth, who is the Son, the first-born of the Father, and the Sun, the first emanation of the creative Phallus. He derives directly from his mother Binah through the Path of Zain, the sublime intuitive sense, so that he partakes absolutely of the nature of Neschamah. From his father, Chokmah, he is informed though the Path of Heh’, the Great Mother, the Star, our Lady Nuit, so that the creative impulse is communicated to him by all possibilities soever. [How strikingly this fact confirms the counterchange of IV and XVII, above fully expounded: as a link between Chokmah and Tiphareth, the Emperor would have no great significance, and this exquisite doctrine of the Three Mothers would be lost.]

Finally, from Kether, the supreme, descends directly upon him, though the Path of Gimel, the High Priestess, the triune light of Initiation. The Three- in-One, the Secret Mother in her polymorphous plenitude; these, these alone, hail him thrice blessed of the Supernals!

Moving towards the card itself, which should be better understood once someone has made the above his own in my opinion, I will start from the Zodiac sign. which I don't usually do, to illustrate some of the qualities inherent by it:

Aquarius is the fixed sign of Air. It's dominant keyword is "I know", and it's symbol is a reference to water flow, the water bearer, someone who offers to all the giving of life. Aquarian people are usually seen to be hopeful, idealistic, friendly and humanitarian. Those of you who know Aquarian people might have seen some of those qualities in action. Aquarius is also ruled by Uranus, the Greek God of the Sky, the Greek equivalent of Nuit and Saturn traditionally, the planet assosiated with the Sephira Binah, who is Babalon, a manifestation of Nuit.

Those assosiations will be really helpful in better understanding the card once we get more into it's context.

Book of Thoth said:
This card is attributed to the letter He’, as has been explained elsewhere. It refers to the Zodiacal sign of Aquarius, the water- bearer. The picture represents Nuith, our Lady of the Stars. For the full meaning of this sentence it is necessary to understand the first chapter of the Book of the Law.

The figure of the goddess is shown in manifestation, that is, not as the surrounding space of heaven, shown in Atu XX, where she is the pure philosophical idea continuous and omniform. In this card she is definitely personified as a human-seeming figure; she is represented as bearing two cups, one golden, held high above her head, from which she pours water upon it.

We talked a bit about He previously. About Nuit, we have to say something though for those not familiar with the Lady. I will give some quotations from The Book of The Law I find fundamental to understand this card, and I then recommend listening Crowley a bit and going to read it for yourself:

Liber AL vel Legis said:
13. I am above you and in you. My ecstasy is in yours. My joy is to see your joy.
21. With the God & the Adorer I am nothing: they do not see me. They are as upon the earth; I am Heaven, and there is no other God than me, and my lord Hadit.Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt.
27. Then the priest answered & said unto the Queen of Space, kissing her lovely brows, and the dew of her light bathing his whole body in a sweet-smelling perfume of sweat: O Nuit, continuous one of Heaven, let it be ever thus; that men speak not of Thee as One but as None; and let them speak not of thee at all, since thou art continuous!
29. For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union.

I can hear some of you saying "Omg you stupid little owl, who doesn't know and has a personal understanding of Nuit?" Well, I am trying to help a bit in doing that for those few or many who may not have a personal basis.

So, Nuit herself states that she is divided for the sake of Love. Division is a reason for unity, Solve et Coagula as the Alchemists say. If there is no separation, there is no attraction between beings to become whole. On this basis, babies are made! But Nuit, as far as we can say, is the principle of Ain as seen by the Kabbalah. It is that infinite space which contains both everything and nothing. This is why she is infinite, and the symbol of infinity is the symbol of Ain Soph.

How is she divided? She is manifest in the Sephira Binah as Babalon, the Archetypical Mother, the root of form giving and in Venus. Seven is the Number of Venus, the Goddess of Beauty and Love. So, Nuit is dividing herself in love and for love.

With the golden cup, she pours water on herself. This water is "ethereal water, which is also milk and oil and blood, upon her own head, indicating the eternal renewal of the categories, the inexhaustible possibilities of existence. "(Book of Thoth). So, with this flow through her she renews all life and reincarnaters everything to keep the total sum of the whole Universe (Herself) going, as Thermodynamics teach us. Life then has the potential to make manifest endless possibilities. I also, after some meditations on those symbols, think of that spiral ethereal water as the Willpower, the energy of Chokmah being put through the discipline of force, form, which His wife (Binah) provides him with to be able to manifest itself and fulfill his Will in flesh, the role of an individual's HGA.

For the Silver cup Crowley tells us that:
The Book of Thoth said:
The left hand, lowered, holds a silver cup, from which also she pours the immortal liquor of her life. (This liquor is the Amrita of the Indian philosophers, the Nepenthe and Ambrosia of the Greeks, the Alkahest and Universal Medicine of the Alchemists, the Blood of the Grail; or, rather, the nectar which is the mother of that blood. She pours it upon the junction of land and water. This water is the water of the great Sea of Binah; in the manifestation of Nuith on a lower plane, she is the Great Mother. For the Great Sea is upon the shore of the fertile earth, as represented by the roses in the right hand corner of the picture. But between sea and land is the “Abyss”, and this is hidden by the clouds, which whirl as a development of her hair: “my hair the trees of Eternity”. (AL. I, 59).

It is useful -in my opinion- to see Her body as a medium through which the flow of the ethereal water mentioned previously is then offered to the land and the Sea beneath Her. She offers the liquor to both the unmanifest (Binah, a different manifestation of Her) and the manifested universe as presented by the fertile earth. The fertile earth can be seen as the manifested universe, to which our water bearer "throws" the essence of Life to allow it to be.

There are also seven twenty sided solids on the bottom part of the card. Seven is again, the number of Love and twenty is the number of Yod when spelled fully. Yod is a symbol of Chokmah, so it could be seen as His Will given flesh in actuality. The roses are yet another symbol of Venus.

If you look closely to the bottom of the card, you may see some pyramids in the deeper parts of the card. Those are no ordinary pyramids, they represent the City of Pyramids, which is the city in which those who cross the Abyss dwell. Crowley told us about the Abyss previously, and this Path crosses it.

Book of Thoth said:
In the left-hand corner of the picture is the star of Babalon; the Sigil of the Brotherhood of the A.’. A.’. For Babalon is yet a further materialization of the original idea of Nuith; she is the Scarlet Woman, the sacred Harlot who is the lady of Atu XI. From this star, behind the celestial sphere itself, issue the curled rays of spiritual light. Heaven itself is no more than a veil before the face of the immortal goddess.

The rest of the Book of Thoth is really helpful, but I have gone too far with this post to which probably no one will respond, but I am happy about my work here. There are also ways in which this card can be seen as a reference to the connection between the Supernal Sephiroth to those which are below the Abyss but I have written too much already.

I will lastly refer to the Sephira this card connects. It connects the Archetypical Father (Chokmah) to God the Son (Tiphareth). Two mainly masculine Sephiroth (even though Tiphareth has feminine qualities in it) are connected by the Mother. I find this easier to understand once someone thinks of it in a realistic manner. What connects a Father to a Son? The Mother, ta dah! So, the unmanifest Will of God which Chokmah is the carrier and executor of is made manifest in the Sphere where the HGA-Christ-Hoor is. Thus, it connects the Will of God unmanifest to the Will of God made manifest, I could say that She actually transfers it between them in a sense, renewing life and reincarnating the Will of God below the Abyss until the point in which this Will returns to Her in the City of Pyramids, the Sephira Binah, after the manifested Will of God within a person residing in Tiphareth returns back by crossing the Abyss to the Great Mother (Binah-Babalon).

Damnnnn I went at a great length of writing about this Trump, which I slightly try to avoid most of the time but usually fail hard. I really did it this time, I can hear you all saying
"Who do you think will read this you fool?"
I certainly hope some people will, and they will hopefully answer! I mean, come on, it is one of those cards that are considered "good". I can get why no one wrote anything about The Devil or The Tower but The Star is a card everyone writes about (at least in most threads).

Anywho, those are some of the things I could say about this card as I see it today of course, I hope you found it nice and not too boring (yeah right) and I'm looking forward to hear some your thoughts as well!
 

smw

I am wondering about this losing of the doctrine of the three mothers if the emperor had not been swopped with the Star.

There seems to be already two paths that connect to the Supernals, above the Abyss, with representations of the feminine. On the left of the tree, Tipareth connects to Binah the great mother, with aspect of Nuit by the path of Zain. The meaning is the sword and relates to the trump Lovers. Crowley in the Book of Thoth talks about this card as the story of creation, involving the brothers Cain and Abel and the divisive nature of the sword. Echoes too of the flaming sword preventing return to Eden after the Fall. Overall, this seems like a tricky path....

The middle route from Tipareth to Kether itself, through the path of Gimel, the camel, relates to the feminine trump of the High priestess. As Crowley says

Book of Thoth said:
"this card relates to the moon as a general feminine symbol and "her path ...makes a direct connection between the Father in his highest aspect, and the son in his most perfect manifestation. This path is in exact balance in the middle pillar".

She appears to represent the spiritual virgin and huntress, Artemis/Diana, though with masculine attributes as well. According to Duquette

DUQUETTE said:
"the veil that conceals the Priestess is also a rainbow, an ethereal version of the cape of the Androgyne in the trump Art, which lies below..on the middle pillar."

He also mentions the arrow on her lap as referring to Saggitarius, the Zodiacal sign attributed to Art.

This middle pillar way goes straight up (like the Arrow) and already less divided, the male and female elements together reflecting the higher Kether. This seems an unlikely route for most, and maybe even hazardous, madness (unconscious Moon) on the final path of Gimel. I am thinking of something I read (I can't remember where) about Da'ath being the invisible Sephira within the Abyss and something to do with secret knowledge of highest initiates or Adepts.

So far then (to me at the moment...ahem) these two routes look like a grapple with the sword and the whole of the fall or an unlikely too quick leap straight to the top. ( sorry! I just can't resist cobbling things together). So this leaves the path Heh, meaning window, joining Tipareth to Chockmah , with the Emperor trump now replaced by Crowley as the Star. The window does seem more feminine, more all than an eye, or a point like Hadit. Also, with the letter shape being more feminine . However, though the Emperor seems a less likely choice being more masculine, confusingly, the Book of Thoth also says

BOOK OF Thoth said:
"his authority is derived from Chokmah, the creative wisdom, the word and is exerted upon Tipareth, the organized man".

This seems to suggest the Emperor is attributed to this path?.

However, leaving that aside, I am wondering what the gain is with this new attribution of the Star to the path of Heh. It seems to me from what you have quoted above that the Star might incorporate or even redeem aspects of the feminine including the more sexual side of Babylon and the scarlet woman. Perhaps, then it balances the left hand path to Binah, which possibly relates to the implication of shameful female sexuality being the starting point for the fall and loss of Eden. Zain also seems similar to Cain whose mother is Eve...

Another thought might be that as you say with the mother connecting the son to the father, this is a higher reflection of the Tetragrammaton. Perhaps on the lower paths this has not happened yet, though set in motion within the path of Lamed and adjustment of the Daughter, the earth, Malkuth. Perhaps this new star path is a more accessible way to cross the Abyss as it reflects earthly love and sexuality, which most of us experience or can relate to here in the material world. This also seems to combine the two, the finer expression of love and the lower together.
 

Owl Tarot

So this leaves the path Heh, meaning window, joining Tipareth to Chockmah , with the Emperor trump now replaced by Crowley as the Star. The window does seem more feminine, more all than an eye, or a point like Hadit. Also, with the letter shape being more feminine . However, though the Emperor seems a less likely choice being more masculine, confusingly, the Book of Thoth also says

This seems to suggest the Emperor is attributed to this path?.

However, leaving that aside, I am wondering what the gain is with this new attribution of the Star to the path of Heh. It seems to me from what you have quoted above that the Star might incorporate or even redeem aspects of the feminine including the more sexual side of Babylon and the scarlet woman. Perhaps, then it balances the left hand path to Binah, which possibly relates to the implication of shameful female sexuality being the starting point for the fall and loss of Eden. Zain also seems similar to Cain whose mother is Eve...

Another thought might be that as you say with the mother connecting the son to the father, this is a higher reflection of the Tetragrammaton. Perhaps on the lower paths this has not happened yet, though set in motion within the path of Lamed and adjustment of the Daughter, the earth, Malkuth.

It is sexual in the Universal sense I believe. Binah (Nuit) takes the pure Phallic force of Chokmah and disciplines it. The Vision of Chokmah is to see God face to face, since Chokmah is the reflection of Kether. A Christian way of seeing it (if that helps you of course) is the mystical definition of Christ consiousness. Tiphareth is the Sphere of the HGA, the Higher Self, Christ in flesh (see Atu XV) which is the Archetypal Will in Atziluth (The Will of God, Chokmah) made flesh in Tiphareth. The ideal is made manifest in it's perfect form. Let's go a little bit more with some Christian symbolism since it helped me clear things up a bit in the past. What is the medium of Christ consiousness unmanifest (through my meditations, I would say he is Chokmah) with Christ as Son of Man (Tiphareth)? The Virgin Mary (a way of saying Binah)!

I don't think it is so much about the feminine alone or redeeming it, I would say it is more about the feminine quality of form combining with the masculine quality of force (these are in no way racist terms, they are used to represent Universal energies) and giving birth to God the Son-Hoor-HGA (the name isn't as important as the function). Afterwards, once one is high enough, Babalon the Mother is ready and waiting to take him back to the City of Pyramids (Seen in the Trump-watch closely) after he offers his blood to the Grail.

About the swap, both the nature of the letters involved and the harmony of the Zodiacal circle is brought to a far better position then they were before. A feminine letter gets a feminine symbol and the Zodiac gets a shape of harmony, which it didn't possess before the switch. There is a diagram about this in DuQuette if I recall correctly.

I also don't think the feminine needs redemption in Kabbalah to begin with, since the formula YHVH is balanced sexually. To better understand the triple Goddess formula, I would advice you to carefully study the Magickal formula of N.O.X.. Some more study of the Sephiroth involved may help.

About the Emperor and his authority coming from Chokmah, I suggest you read the 12th Aethyr, the second half in particular, from the Supper of the Passover and below. You might need to meditate about it or study it more then one time to find it, but it can answer your question in my experience, at the least.

Perhaps this new star path is a more accessible way to cross the Abyss as it reflects earthly love and sexuality, which most of us experience or can relate to here in the material world. This also seems to combine the two, the finer expression of love and the lower together.

It is not so easily accessible. The essense of the Path is the same, but in the new Aeon, the Magickal formula changes (read about N.O.X.). It does connect the "higher" to the "lower" -I'm using these words in the common meaning- since it connects a Sephira which is above the Abyss to one which is below the Abyss. This is one of the purposes, to show multiple manifestations of Nuit (the globe, the sky, the woman) and understand that Her motive is Love, thus existence is pure joy.

As The Book of The Law states, Nuit is divided for Love's sake. She is divided into "lower" manifestations indeed, all out of Love. Through division, polar opposites attract each other to unite and create a child, just like Chokmah (The reflection of God the Father or Hadit-The masculine universal force-Yod) unites with Binah (The Womb, the Archetypal Female, Virgin Mary-Babalon-He Primal, which disciplines that ideal force into ideal force above the Abyss, thereoff still unmanifest) to create a third, God the Son-Hoor-Christ in flesh-Vau who has traits from both his Mother and his Father.

Also notice the Planetary attribution. Saturn, who rules Aquarius, corresponds to Binah. This is why I started with the Zodiac attributions in this instance, since it really helps to embrace the ideas on why The Star is where it is and how that makes sense. Again, you could also see DuQuette's book to check out the Zodiacal diagram before and after the swap. All ideas presented in this post and my previous one might aid you in understanding it for yourself.
 

smw

Thank you, Owl Tarot for the comments and reading suggestions. That will keep me busy for a while (and quiet ;))
 

Michael Sternbach

I find it noteworthy that The Star has a double action. Aspiring to higher things, grand visions: that's the way from the "lower" to the "higher." Materializing visions in the physical world: That's the way from the "higher" to the "lower."
 

Aeon418

This seems to suggest the Emperor is attributed to this path?.
It does. But that leaves you with a card representing Sovereign Reason spanning the Abyss. :confused: On the Path of Heh the Light of Chokmah may shine upon the Emperor, but going the other way (Tiphareth to Chokmah) he represents a big STOP sign. The Emperor is the rational ego that must be dethroned in the crossing of the Abyss. Only when he is out of the way is Nuit unveiled. But until then the Naked Truth of the Universe is hidden behind the Emperor's new clothes and the obscuring structures of the Demiurge-mind that dictates the nature of reality to us.

The Emperor is a much better fit on the Path of Tzaddi between Netzach and Yesod. (Where Crowley says he belongs.)
Netzach is the sphere of fiery desire and devotion. While Yesod is the seat of subconscious, instinctial, sexual drives. Yesod is spelt YSVD = 80, which is the value of the letter Peh attributed to Mars. It represents the subconscious (Lunar) sex force (Mars) in humanity. Obviously the path in between these two is going to be high energy and very intense. In the old aeon the Star was placed between these two Sephiroth, pouring cold water on anything remotely sexual. But in the New Aeon the task is to use this energy. The Emperor looks like the right man for the job. :thumbsup:

From Netzach to Yesod he represents the mechanism whereby concentrated thought and desire is imprinted on the subconscious mind. We all do this to some extent, but most of us aren't very good. We either focus on the wrong things, or our concentration is poor. Raja (Royal ;)) Yoga might help.
From the other angle, Yesod up to Netzach, the Emperor represents the raising and direction of sexual energies towards objects of desire, devotion, and aspiration. Enflame thyself in prayer, as Crowley often put it. But this takes discipline and self control to avoid burnout or a premature discharge of force. The Emperor looks like he can take the heat though.

Sorry for going a bit OT.
 

Owl Tarot

Thank you, Owl Tarot for the comments and reading suggestions. That will keep me busy for a while (and quiet ;))

Why quiet? :( You don't like hanging out with us here? You don't like hanging out with us here and making more insightful posts? :(

I find it noteworthy that The Star has a double action. Aspiring to higher things, grand visions: that's the way from the "lower" to the "higher." Materializing visions in the physical world: That's the way from the "higher" to the "lower."

It's a wonderful thing, indeedy! What you say is also a trait many Aquarians possess, to be hopeful and idealistic. And can anything come even remotely close to being absorbed back to the love of Nuit? When seen from the perspective of Tiphareth towards Chokmah, one finally achieves what the butterflies we have at the bottom right, meaning to move at the City of Pyramids, we are one step closer towards seeing God face to face.

Also, a lot of beauty lies in the fact that Nuit bathes herself with Life and offers the potential of Chokmah, the endless creative drive, to Tiphareth, God the Son. It is a wonderful message that I translate as reincarnation and the steady flow of energy that sustains the universe and allows for everything to happen until one is ready to return back to the Love of the Mother. Really nice thoughts Michael!
 

smw

Why quiet? :( You don't like hanging out with us here? You don't like hanging out with us here and making more insightful posts? :(

I thought I might have cluttered up your thread garbling away with my concoctions of the tree..sorry, the quiet thing was my stuff rather than your reply. I do and thanks:)
 

smw

It does. But that leaves you with a card representing Sovereign Reason spanning the Abyss. :confused: On the Path of Heh the Light of Chokmah may shine upon the Emperor, but going the other way (Tiphareth to Chokmah) he represents a big STOP sign. The Emperor is the rational ego that must be dethroned in the crossing of the Abyss. Only when he is out of the way is Nuit unveiled. But until then the Naked Truth of the Universe is hidden behind the Emperor's new clothes and the obscuring structures of the Demiurge-mind that dictates the nature of reality to us.

The Emperor is a much better fit on the Path of Tzaddi between Netzach and Yesod. (Where Crowley says he belongs.)
Netzach is the sphere of fiery desire and devotion. While Yesod is the seat of subconscious, instinctial, sexual drives. Yesod is spelt YSVD = 80, which is the value of the letter Peh attributed to Mars. It represents the subconscious (Lunar) sex force (Mars) in humanity. Obviously the path in between these two is going to be high energy and very intense. In the old aeon the Star was placed between these two Sephiroth, pouring cold water on anything remotely sexual. But in the New Aeon the task is to use this energy. The Emperor looks like the right man for the job. :thumbsup:

From Netzach to Yesod he represents the mechanism whereby concentrated thought and desire is imprinted on the subconscious mind. We all do this to some extent, but most of us aren't very good. We either focus on the wrong things, or our concentration is poor. Raja (Royal ;)) Yoga might help.
From the other angle, Yesod up to Netzach, the Emperor represents the raising and direction of sexual energies towards objects of desire, devotion, and aspiration. Enflame thyself in prayer, as Crowley often put it. But this takes discipline and self control to avoid burnout or a premature discharge of force. The Emperor looks like he can take the heat though.

Sorry for going a bit OT.

The Emperor does seem more fitting on this path. I like this idea of movement in both directions. From what you have said he seems then to have a conduit role for linking the instinctual drives to the higher feelings, suiting this lower part of the tree. Perhaps, if there is control and utilisation here of unconscious energies, the ego rationalising part becomes stronger and more robust. Later up the tree on the path of Heh may be, this benefit then becomes harder to relinquish... though for me :laugh: my unconscious energies and concentration are unruly, I was thinking of taking up yoga actually :)

Maybe after I have watched a bit of sword dancing.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xckBwPdo1c
 

Owl Tarot

I thought I might have cluttered up your thread garbling away with my concoctions of the tree..

But it is on topic. It is relevant, it is something I have not mentioned and is really worth talking about as The Star is a part of the Triple Goddess formula. You cluttered nothing, you actually enriched my post with your personal work on an at least relevant subject. I would rather prefer you to continue posting your concoctions just like I post some of mine, and all of these eventually hug nicely and offer those participating something.

This is how I feel about it, and this is one of the reasons I do those threads for. If no one else posts some of his/her ideas, the thread can't evolve. So, I want you and all those who post to keep posting.