Quick questions about... la Maison Diev/the Tower

The door at the bottom

As we all know, the Jodo-Camoin Tower card expressly shows a door at the bottom. In the 1760 Conver and the 1701 Dodal, there is no door explicitly shown. Is there any early deck that does more explicity show (or, at least, more explicity suggest) a door at the bottom?

Thanks.

Re: The door at the bottom

Rusty Neon said:

As we all know, the Jodo-Camoin Tower card expressly shows a door at the bottom. In the 1760 Conver and the 1701 Dodal, there is no door explicitly shown. Is there any early deck that does more explicity show (or, at least, more explicity suggest) a door at the bottom?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Hello again, Rusty!

You will find the door at the bottom of "LA MAISON DIEU" in
"Tarot de Besancon" made in Besancon in 19th century,
by Jerger, Kirchner, Renault or Blanche.

The Renault card can be seen in Kaplan's Encyclopedia II, p351.
Or you can see the Blanche card at the bottom of the following
page (Maybe you may have seen it once before...).
http://www.omuta.***uoka.med.or.jp/city/karuta2.htm

This is a real coincidence: I'm just making a study of "Tarot de
Besancon".
I think TdB is a type of tarot which deserves to be given much
more regard.
It's not a mere variant of TdM with Juno and Jupiter instead of
Popess and Pope, I feel...

Kenji

The three stars in the above link is for "f - u - k"...

Thankyou for the link and the note, Kenji.

I must admit that I had briefly looked, quite a while back, for sources for the open door of the Camoin deck's depiction, and must have missed it.

I do recall, however, that there had been various discussions - from pre-.net days - of there being an open door from which one of the figures fell. It could be, then, that either the 'oral tradition' stems from the Besançon pattern, or that the depiction stems from an already existing oral tradition.

In either case, your bringing to light the card depiction, as importantly highlighted by Rusty Neon's question, is wonderful...

For the sake of giving the full version of your broken link, it is

http://www.omuta.fukuoka.med.or.jp/city/karuta2.htm

Click to expand...

jmd, I like the idea of "'destruction' of falsely held beliefs and idolatry, " for this card...As you know, I always like to read O'Neill's reference from the following site so I'll add it here again. I find the Iconolgy section particularly interesting re the sequence of cards within which appears the Tower:

Death/Devil/Tower/Star/Moon/Sun: (death----temptation/lovers/idolatry---- destruction of falsely held beliefs----rebirth----death-----resurrection....(However, Temperance falls at XIV...and is not mentioned by O'Neill since he discusses the sequence with Devil as XIV....with Temperance, would the sequence perhaps not have to occur?...just thinking as I write)

http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/library/boneill/tower

I also am beginning to like more and more the associations of trumps past ten as XI with I and so forth...which places VI with XVI....

terri