daphne
I wouldn't be so worried about this.
I love this HEAT deck idea, but I think it will have a slow way, if ever.
HEAT deck - inception
I wouldn't be so worried about this.
I love this HEAT deck idea, but I think it will have a slow way, if ever.
Cenozoic
I only see that the printing company would be benefiting with this route (forever and ever and ever). And that card creators lose ownership of their own work. Copyrights are there to protect people from having pirates board their ships! No copyrights means that anyone will have the privilege of printing the deck, not only the printing company. And then anyone can change and manipulate anything about the artwork itself, and sell that commercially, which would be upsetting.
I genuinely see how there are very good intentions, of volunteering, of sharing with everyone, of not-profiting, but at the same time there is no protection or safety for the deck itself. After it's done, anyone can have their way with it, and that's the downfall.
A gift to the world, yet the world sees things in money signs.
I think it's fair to allow copyright, since copyright protection starts as soon as the creation (the card) is made, and the idea has taken shape. And I repeat, copyright protection starts as soon as it's made (you could put a copyright symbol next to your creations, without ever registering). So by not having copyrights, people are actually losing their rights to their own work, which I would find deeply unfair for the participants involved. Not having copyrights means that anyone can take your work, change it around, copy it, and do whatever they please. It's not a good outcome.
I don't really wish that happen to anyone's cards. I might want to participate, but knowing where it might lead, I'm not so sure I would like to. I'm sure this deck has great intentions, but at the same time, it might be a folly if it's not genuinely raised and cared for in the right way. I would like you to basically think a bit more deeply about copyrights, since it doesn't hurt anyone to have protection. Yet it will hurt without it.
daphne
I only see that the printing company would be benefiting with this route (forever and ever and ever). And that card creators lose ownership of their own work. Copyrights are there to protect people from having pirates board their ships! No copyrights means that anyone will have the privilege of printing the deck, not only the printing company. And then anyone can change and manipulate anything about the artwork itself, and sell that commercially, which would be upsetting.
I genuinely see how there are very good intentions, of volunteering, of sharing with everyone, of not-profiting, but at the same time there is no protection or safety for the deck itself. After it's done, anyone can have their way with it, and that's the downfall.
A gift to the world, yet the world sees things in money signs.
I think it's fair to allow copyright, since copyright protection starts as soon as the creation (the card) is made, and the idea has taken shape. And I repeat, copyright protection starts as soon as it's made (you could put a copyright symbol next to your creations, without ever registering). So by not having copyrights, people are actually losing their rights to their own work, which I would find deeply unfair for the participants involved. Not having copyrights means that anyone can take your work, change it around, copy it, and do whatever they please. It's not a good outcome.
I don't really wish that happen to anyone's cards. I might want to participate, but knowing where it might lead, I'm not so sure I would like to. I'm sure this deck has great intentions, but at the same time, it might be a folly if it's not genuinely raised and cared for in the right way. I would like you to basically think a bit more deeply about copyrights, since it doesn't hurt anyone to have protection. Yet it will hurt without it.
Thank you, Cenozoic, for your post. I understand what you are writing. Nothing it actually certain about the project, except that it will be available for everyone to buy it from an online printing company.
About printing company 'benefiting' from it, I do not see it this way. We also benefit by having good quality decks from them. It is fair for them to make money for their ink, paper and service. Go to any printing place and try to have your 78 card deck, the price is similar or higher. Try it home, the quality is lousy and you pay for the cartridge anyway.
Just for understanding better how you see we can do this, can you please describe how do you think we can protect the copyright of 78 cards made by many different people around the world? How can we have control over this? There is no control. If anyone wants to pirate it, it will happen, no matter our small letters about ownership. What will you do next? Complain to some people here willing to organize? Sue, who, where, how long will take? Be unhappy?
Why our creation for several cards cannot just be offered freely to the world, like some photos on internet? Or old paintings? Why would upset people so much to see their card used and modified, if the intention was just to contribute with it to a game-like project, have their deck and enjoy their fellow cards?
I am thinking no copyrights to make things simpler. I have no means to control what happens with those cards, with or without copyrights. Digital files can reach other hands then ours, cards can be scanned, etc. I am not willing to have battles about "somebody copied my card, fix it", I dont want to end-up being the police of this deck. Do you have a solution? Maybe I am too idealistic with this one.
acidrica
I'd be interested. Bring on the swords!
Bring on the swords!cSpaceDiva
I've been thinking about joining in on this so I've been watching without commenting. I'm ready to go ahead and commit to doing a card.
I am also willing to do this as a gift. If I were going to the trouble of making an entire deck, or if I were trying to make a living through my creative work, I would probably feel differently. Let's not forget what the A stands for-Amateurish.
Copyrights are kind of pointless if they're not going to be enforced, the burden of which is on the copyright holder. They also don't stop people from altering your work. How many threads do we have here about people cutting off borders, drawing on clothes or filling in eyeballs? If I want to take every last deck I own and black out the teeth and put Hitler mustaches on people NO ONE CAN STOP ME! As an amateur, if someone takes my work and feels inspired to do something creative of their own with it--good for them. I guess it would bother me if someone tried to take the deck and make a profit from it, but seriously, how realistic is that? Who is going to pay big bucks for this deck considering 1)The Amateurish quality of the artwork and 2)That it will be available to anyone who wants it for just the cost of printing? I also highly doubt the anyone who has the skills to manipulate something to the point where it becomes commercially viable is going to use my work as a staring point. However, if someone wants to research, or be in charge of doing some type of Creative Commons license or whatnot, I'm fine with that too.
I guess that's all a long of saying, I'm in.
I am also willing to do this as a gift. If I were going to the trouble of making an entire deck, or if I were trying to make a living through my creative work, I would probably feel differently. Let's not forget what the A stands for-Amateurish.
Copyrights are kind of pointless if they're not going to be enforced, the burden of which is on the copyright holder. They also don't stop people from altering your work. How many threads do we have here about people cutting off borders, drawing on clothes or filling in eyeballs? If I want to take every last deck I own and black out the teeth and put Hitler mustaches on people NO ONE CAN STOP ME! As an amateur, if someone takes my work and feels inspired to do something creative of their own with it--good for them. I guess it would bother me if someone tried to take the deck and make a profit from it, but seriously, how realistic is that? Who is going to pay big bucks for this deck considering 1)The Amateurish quality of the artwork and 2)That it will be available to anyone who wants it for just the cost of printing? I also highly doubt the anyone who has the skills to manipulate something to the point where it becomes commercially viable is going to use my work as a staring point. However, if someone wants to research, or be in charge of doing some type of Creative Commons license or whatnot, I'm fine with that too.
I guess that's all a long of saying, I'm in.
daphne
Your point nr 2 might not always be available.
Maybe some artists making money from their art are joining, would be really nice to have such a diversity, both in styles and, yes, quality. The end result, in total, will be, no matter their art, quite amateurish. But they know already that not all of us can create masterpieces, to equal them. Again, not contest here. That does not mean that their art for this deck will be lower grade. Just that they will not make profit from it this time. And sure, if someone knows how can a general pleasing agreement regarding Creative Commons license could be meet, let's see.
acidrica
Your point nr 2 might not always be available.
And sure, if someone knows how can a general pleasing agreement regarding Creative Commons license could be meet, let's see.
I'm one such artist, though I haven't been doing art commissions lately. I have no problem doing this as a gift because, well....Tarot!
Cenozoic
I work at what you could call a printing company. I'm not trying to argue with you, so let's be clear about that. So, cardstock paper for home printers are less thick, but they are made that way so they won't jam up your home printer. And some cartridges can be bought for relatively cheap (less than $20) depending on your printer model.
Each country has their laws on copyright, yet I am just informing you that in the country where you live, there is an automatic copyright on the things you create. The original cards you make will be in your country, and it will go under whatever copyright law is there (and as for digital artworks, the first digital print you make would be considered copyrighted since it's now there's a physical copy of it). By stating that there is no copyright, you're taking away this automatic copyright that people have. It seems like you think that since nothing can fully be protected, so you're just going to just let all the barriers down, and let the bears in.
Photos on the internet are under copyright too, even without a copyright symbol. Some old paintings are still being disputed as being either being still copyrighted or under public domain. It's a misconception to think that everything on the internet is free to take unfortunately.
I'm just informing you of these things so you'll know more about them. You're running the show here, and I'm trying to be of some help. You have just informed everyone that you have no means of control over these cards, and that they'll be pirated somehow one way or the other. Everyone will turn to you for these issues, since you're the leader of this project. And if someone did say that "someone copied my card, fix it", are you going to tell them that it had no copyright in the first place, so you're not held accountable? But since you've made the decision not to have copyright, so you're still held accountable for that decision. If the card creator still had copyright over it, they could try to do something about it themselves, with or without your help in the matter. That is reasonable for both you and that individual.
For the Creative Commons License, it's basically a public copyright license, and depending on the license, you can copy or change the work that you wouldn't otherwise get to change if it was under normal copyright by it's owner. And the owner can freely apply the Creative Commons License to their work, and then everyone else can use their work under the conditions of that certain license. There are different licenses that do different things. I hope your brain is okay, because the creative commons IS about copyrights unfortunately.
gregory
. . . .
Luna-Ocean
I agree with this so many people get so hung up on copyrights and the like which wont serve anyone making a fun to use deck when it's finished? I think also if some people are concerned with other people using the deck who had not contributed then you could design a card maybe with your own signature somewhere on the card, so at least that way you know you had some recognition with the art work?
But as already been mentioned i don't see how you can protect a physical deck there are so many ways to manipulate and change images even with a well known deck like the RW?
