What is the exact difference between an opposition and a square

RohanMenon

Some context:

I learned 'new age' astrology for two years, and am now in the process of purging this knowledge, and replacing it with a more classical/event-based foundation.

In the 'psychobabble' astrology I learned, an opposition essentially involves the planets at either end pulling you in different directions, and the 'lesson' is that you need to find a a balancing point.

A square on the other hand does ... uh what exactly ? -- something like 'open conflict between the two planets' principles' . That sounds like an opposition to me, only with the 'conflict' being 'pull in different directions'.

When I try to apply it to a chart, I find that (as typical with most modern astrology) I can't make concrete predictions or even distinctions between two aspects and have to fall back to psychobabble.

Would any experienced astrologer be kind enough to explain the difference, ideally with a concrete example? How would these aspects be interpreted in old school astrology (Yes, with a real chart, the sign, house dignities etc would play a part, but here I am focusing only on the aspects and their differences)

Thanks in advance
 

decan

I am in the same process, which means that I turned myself towards a more traditional approach.
An opposition is worse compared to a square. An opposition means a separation concerning what the two planets in opposition represent.
A square doesn't mean necessarily a separation but a it means a conflict.
An opposition is a bit like Saturn, a square like Mars. Of course you need as well to look at each of the planets, if they are in domicile, exaltation, triplicity, term or face, or in detriment, fall; and if they are in a good house or no, ect.

Well, I'm not a professional and presently I am studying traditional astrology, but you will have other responses from people very instructed in this matter!
 

RohanMenon

Thanks decan,

perspectives of fellow students are valuable.

I was looking at a chart in which there is a Mercury square Pluto, and another in which there is a Saturn opposition to Neptune, and it suddenly struck me that I could say nothing useful about these.

Humbling, but a good opportunity to learn!
 

decan

Well, generally, traditional astrology doesn't look at Uranus, Neptune (and Pluto).
We only look at the 7 classical Planets.

Your approach is more modern than classical, but it's ok.
Here you can select some negative key-words concerning Pluto (not exactly positive anyway!) and Neptune.
Mercury in square towards Pluto is seen as harsh. A deep depression is possible (thoughts could be compulsive, destructive or auto-destructive).
 

dadsnook2000

Squares and oppositions.

An opposition aspect can be interpreted in different ways.

1) As a division of a circle by "2" it can denote 'partnership' considerations. How is your relationships shaped by the two planets involved. Or, how do you project your expression of the two planets upon others.

2) In terms of interacting in business or social or negotiation settings, the opposition can be nuanced more in terms of the slower planet being modified by the faster planet. Example might be Jupiter-opposite-Mars -- if a social opportunity (buying, taking, approving) comes along, you might aggressively pursue it. This is the 'greedy-grabber' pattern. Or, a great job opening might be contested by a rival who wants the job for themselves.

3) The opposition, as noted in "2" above, could be interpreted in terms of which planet is in the first house or the tenth house, as an example. How you fight for something (with Mars in the first) might depend upon the size (Jupiter) of the opposition (Jupiter). With Mars in the 10th of one's public image, status and life-goals, Jupiter might be seen in a positive light as a supportive resource that has been discovered. Negatively, it might mean a legal problem relating to your home, base or resources.

The CONTEXT of the situation and the type of chart being used always plays a role.

For Squares, since there are two of them, we have to take into account the 'opening' square versus the 'closing' square. Squares denote conflict, struggle, challenges, a need to express the planet within difficult circumstances. The opening square suggests a more intuitive, feeling, reactionary personal response. The closing square suggests a directed, strategic, manipulated action to achieve something or to force a changed condition. What is the 'squaring planet' and the 'squared planet?' We astrologers have both convention and license to be flexible in this.

The basic rule is to use the slower planet as the root planet, the faster planet as the squaring planet. In some cases, the astrologer might want to look at the pair of planets in both ways. Or, based on the questions or issues being examined, whichever planet is in the house that resonates with the question/issue can be treated as the 'root' or reference planet.

Again, an example using Mars and Jupiter. Jupiter in the 2nd might relate to one's resources, personal treasures, or self-esteem. Mars in the 5th (opening square) could be related to betting or gambling in an aggressive manner such that resources are jeopardized. Or, Mars in the 11th might suggest applying personal resources and prestige to a community project or fund raiser in an effort to help others. While Mars in the 5th might exhibit itself in a careless manner, Mars in the 11th might be seen as being a ceaseless and dedicated volunteer.

Again, the Context of the subject's life has to used to frame the interpretations chosen.
 

RohanMenon

Thank You dadsnook

This is a great answer.

My only remaining question is

I didn't quite understand the 'opening' and 'closing' squares.

Is an 'opening' square the square as seen from the faster planet and the 'closing' square, the square from the slower planet?

If I got this wrong, could you give me a concrete example?
 

RohanMenon

I found a link that explains opening and closing squares

https://books.google.co.in/books?id...ogy "opening square" "closing square"&f=false

It essentially seems to have to do with whether the faster planet (of the two forming a square) moves away from or towards the slower planet as the square becomes perfect.

I think this concept would apply to trines too (and any aspect which has more than one possible way of forming)

Thanks, dadsnook, I now understand exactly what you were trying to communicate.

You are a veritable treasure to us stumbling tyros!
 

Minderwiz

The difference between the two squares originally was based on the direction in which a square was cast (and received). Using the Mars/Jupiter example: Put Mars in Gemini and Jupiter in Virgo. Mars squares Jupiter and casts it's square forward in the direction of signs. Jupiter squares Mars but casts it's square backwards against the order of signs. In such a situation Mars's square was seen as overcoming Jupiter's square, I.e. Mars is the stronger irrespective of its sign or house placement. Obviously the square must hold between the two planets.

Change the sign placements and Jupiter becomes the stronger. An aspect cast in the order of signs (or to the lef) is always stronger than an aspect against the order of signs (to the right).

This rule held during the fist millennium but somewhere between Dahl and Masha'allah's in the ninth century and In Ezra in the eleventh the rule flipped for no clear reason... probably a translation or copying error. So by the time of Lilly the square to the right was seen as stronger and Traditional Astrologers ever since have argued the case.

Note: if we take planetary speed into consideration, Mars is the stronger when moving towards the conjunction with Jupiter than away from it. This implies no psychological interpretation, it merely indicates which planet should be taken as the stronger one.

At a more general level, Opposition's produce an aspect in which two planets have the same quality (Cardinal, Fixed, Mutable,) but different gender (masculine or feminine) Traditionally it was described as Saturn-like in nature. A square also has signs ofthe same quality but different gender. It was seen as Mars-like in nature. BUT as Dave points out it's vital to consider the nature of the planets involved. You can't interpret Moon square Venus in exactly the same way as Mars square Saturn.

Please remember that squares and indeed all aspects operate in all branches of Astrology, not just natal, so be a little wary of relying too much on psychological or anthropomorphic descriptions. However for natal work treat squares as causing difficulties delays and problems that are capable of being overcome. With Opposition's that might not be possible. At best that produces something the native has to live with, at worst that difficulty may eventually prove too much. Look to the planets involved and to other chart features to get a clearer idea of which it will be.
 

dadsnook2000

Aspects between planets.

I was using a more modern convention that seems common here in the U.S. The slower moving planet is seen as the base or root or reference planet. The faster moving planet is the one making the aspect. So, in my examples, Jupiter is the slower planet of the two, and Mars would be the one making an opening square (90 degrees ahead in zodiac position), the opposition, or the closing square (270 degrees ahead in the zodiac). This seems based on phase relationships, and may also be the convention advocated by others. However, many years ago I disposed of some 350 astrology books (I didn't have the room for them), and now I have no references for these details. Dave
 

RohanMenon

Good discussion dadsnook, Minderwiz

I'm learning a lot from you guys!
Thanks!