12th house thoughts

jade

my astrology teacher told me that the 12th house is the dust bin of the chart. it's where many things show up - like past lives, whether or not someone ends up in prison/institutionalized etc.

i have uranus, pluto and mercury in my 12th house (virgo). (my asc. in also in virgo) although i seldom study astrology anymore and sadly, have forgotten most of what i learned :(

in light,
jade
 

AquarianGoddess

Jade,

Perhaps you need a break from astrology and that's okay. Astrology will call you when you're ready to return!

Hope all is well in your life and in the new home.

Blessings & Light,
AG
 

zorya

novice here

i have neptune in my 12th house. would this be an extra potent combination then?

could we please have more of these "house" threads. this one really helped things click for me. thanks all!
 

isthmus nekoi

the climax house!

Whew! *Thanks* for all the replies... They've all helped to clarify things for me in these murky waters... (and as for the book suggestions, super thanks, I am such a total bookworm!)

OK, so I promised something for y'all to chew on:

12th sounds pretty psychological to me. If there's one thing I've learned about the unconscious, it's that you can't pin it down and contain it - you can only sink your teeth into it and refuse to let go until you've learned what you must learn, don't let yourself get caught up in it or identify with it, which is, I suppose one way to approach a nebulous Neptunian state. Even the idea that the unconscious is only subconscious - ie, hidden, what is underneath is a little bit misleading b/c is it and is more than that as well.... So while historically the 12th is related to 'sub' things, subcultures etc, I can see now how it moves beyond that as well.

Now, going to the completion of the circle, the idea of totality, I would suggest that this is definetely an experience everybody has on many different levels, many times in a lifetime, unconsciously or consciously. The idea of the *return* to a state before the division of consciousness, which on one hand is to experience ecstacy and on the other, the complete negation of the ego.
You could translate this into a state of love/spirituality/divine which would make it kinda Piscean.... I know negation of ego sounds pretty lousy, but listen to Bjork's Vespertine and you'll get a portrait of love that our society doesn't really look at which is the darkness, the irrationality, and the ecstacy you gain when you really *release* yourself (w/o losing yourself). Is this sounding Piscean? Sorry, when I think of Pisces, I think of the Hanged Man and that release of ego. Release of control - which to me is linked to orgasm and the point of death - a state where you relinquish yourself and you have no ability to pull yourself out of that crest which drives you completely beyond yourself into totality/the higher self as Balder puts it (except you get to come back from the orgasm and w/death who knows?). So 8th might get sex and the underworld, but 12th gets the actual climax, isn't that nice? ^_~ (Someone please rope me in if I'm way off the mark here.)

So.... I can see the spiritual implications and also the threat 12 poses. It's a scary thing to give up control in our control obsessed society.

purplelady> got my sun in 12th as well, and am trying to create a new alternative to postmodernism I'd always attributed that more to my Aquarius rising but certainly sun in 12 makes for a different perspective.
 

Pollux

PPPsssssssttttttttt...
Then I want to ask: I got Pluto in 12th, and Saturn in conjunction wih the cusp... a little bit of help pretty please?
Not much for Saturn, but for Pluto, that keeps intriguing me, and I never get as much info as I'd want about it...
thank you! *hides very plutonianly*
 

Minderwiz

The twelfth is traditionally a house concerned with what is hidden - this can also be linked with ill omens, hidden enemies, anxieties, worries and slaves and slavery were also placed here. Modern interpretations tend to see Neptune's rulership (rather than traditional Jupiter) as overlaying this with self sacrifice, seclusion and mysticism and fantasy.

Pluto is the God of the underworld and therefore fits in well here. In a positive vein Pluto here can discover your hidden treasures but Pluto also traditionally ruled sewers and swamps - not quite as nice as the hidden treasures. Badly aspected Pluto might represent another form of underworld - our criminal fraternity, so you may be the victim of crime or suffer through criminal activities.

Pluto is also seen as transformational - twelfth house issues are those that are likely to bring about the transformation. Although Pluto is often seen as destructive - in the twelfth what is destroyed may well be the fantasies, You will find it difficult to hide away from the transformation because Pluto may make you confront what you are hiding from and help you root out what is weak in your psyche and build on the strong. - Pluto here helps you transform a crisis into something positive.

I hope the above is true because like you I also have Pluto and Saturn in the twelfth.

Best wishes

Minderwiz
 

Pollux

*a glad Pollux, cos he's retrieved a position he thought he had lost for ever...*

Minderwiz said:
Pluto is the God of the underworld and therefore fits in well here. In a positive vein Pluto here can discover your hidden treasures but Pluto also traditionally ruled sewers and swamps - not quite as nice as the hidden treasures.
I was a bit confused on the actual *fitting* of it, since I learnt of a Pluto exalted in Virgo and 6th House. This on the Parker's though, and I have read of "more modern" of Mercury, for example. But I do see your points.

Minderwiz said:
Pluto is also seen as transformational - twelfth house issues are those that are likely to bring about the transformation. Although Pluto is often seen as destructive - in the twelfth what is destroyed may well be the fantasies, You will find it difficult to hide away from the transformation because Pluto may make you confront what you are hiding from and help you root out what is weak in your psyche and build on the strong. - Pluto here helps you transform a crisis into something positive.
WOW MINDERWIZ!!!! THIS MAKES A LOT OF SENSE!!!! :D :D :D
Really, while I read that I thought, "hey, it's me!!!"
Every single word or phrase you used makes sense, really. What you said is so so so valid and actual for me, so real. I have always noticed that "feature" and that pattern, and it was really hard for me to pin it down to a specific Astrological aspect - I used to associate it to the Sun in Gemini with Scorpio Rising. But now I see how well it can be associated with Pluto and it's house, and how it all is clear - and possibly associated _also_ with my trasformational rising.
That was really neat and suited. I just wonder why I never stumbled into that so far...

I hope the above is true because like you I also have Pluto and Saturn in the twelfth.
Yup Yup Yup!!! It's so true...
Maybe this is why I never read about it - cos I had to confirm that to you, and be part of your statistic files... ;)

A spiritual HOOOOORAAAYY!!!! for you, Minderwiz, and thanks! :D
 

Minderwiz

Wow glad you thought it fitted you. The reason I brought in God of the Underworld is that that is where things can be literally hidden Pluto is also God of mines (anything from Gold to Coal) - hence the buried treasure stuff.

I'm never sure how well Pluto gets on with Neptune - Neptune does has the spiritual and mystical dimension, the union with the transcendent and Pluto is transformational, which often is a means of achieving that union. However Neptune is also into fantasy, self deception, drugs. dreams and escapism and Pluto will just rip that sort of facade away and say 'take a good look at reality instead of avoiding it'.

Much will also depend on your aspects to Pluto, as to how easy or difficult the transformation process is.

Minderwiz
 

Pollux

HAAHA!!! I knw I had forgotten something...

Minderwiz, you are so kind!!! WOWIE!!! :D
I am glad you are here on the boards! You are a star! :D

My Neptune is in sextile with my Saturn/Pluto conjuction.
Both Neptune and Saturen are exalted (this following the more modern view of Neptune exalted both in Leo and Sagittarius). The aspect is harmonious, yet I won't deny it has always puzzled me a bit - especially the Saturn/Neptune part.

I think it is a very interesting bit, that I could not relate very well so far and had to neglect when studying my very won chart - I am so so so so stll in the basics *LOL* But now I start to see things clearer... And you helped me tons!
Saturn/Pluto as the "Here and Now!" urge (very strong in me, despite the overly present Fire and Air in my chart) and Neptune the dreamer harmonious to them.

It feel so nice to be harmonious, at least in ONE thing! :D *LOL*

P.S. If you want, I can PM you my data. :)
P.P.S. THANK SO MUCH!!! AGAIN!!! :D
 

GoldenPhi

Traditional astrologers treated the 12th House (along with the 6th) as one of the pits of the horoscope - mainly because it makes no major aspect to the Ascendant and is a cadent House - one which has passed a major angle and moving away from power.

Manilius associated it with ill omen and misery, others with bad luck, Fermicus associated it with enemies, and there are plenty of referencese to prison, slaves, etc. Liily also linked it to self undoing, sorrow and imprisonment.

The more mystical assignments are twentieth century develoments coming from the association firstly with Pisces and then through Pisces with Neptune (though Neptune is often referred to as the great deceiver). Don't forget that Neptune was only discovered in the mid-nineteenth century and the link with Pisces came after than (Pisces is traditionally ruled by Jupiter).

As I have Saturn, Mars, and Pluto in the twelfth I'm not to keen on the traditional interpretations.
What sign is your Saturn Mars conjunction Minderwiz?
However when you try and overlay these with the mystery and dreaminess of Neptune, the Neptunian merging with something greater, then you end up with a house that is very difficult to pin down (very Neptunian).

Minderwiz