using the thoth vs. knowing it

fractalgranny

hi all -

i've been using the tarot for many years but only started really studying it about 3 years ago. it all started with the crow's magick (the forth deck i owned at the time), which suddenly drew me to the tarot in a powerful way that still delights me.

i only recently realized that there is something "thothy" about that deck. so here is my question: in terms of reading, i typically err on the intuitive side, i.e. i am very image based (a la dusty white perhaps) and just let myself respond to the images. doesn't mean i don't pay any attention at all to so-called "traditional" meanings or LWB meanings but they definitely are secondary to what i see in the imagery. that's also why i actively work with quite a few decks - choosing what feels like the right deck for the question is an important part of the reading for me.

i have the thoth, two decks closely based on the thoth (rosetta and hermetic) and then a bunch of "thothy" decks. here's the question: what, if any, are the pitfalls of working with thoth and thoth-type decks when you don't know that much about thoth and the qabala? i have read duquette's thoth book and listened to a few of his videos but that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge of the thoth. i'm not much into astrology or the qabala and to this day don't see the point of numerology - with this limited knowledge, am i missing too much about the intricacies of the thoth and thoth based cards?
 

Zephyros

Yep, you are, in fact, missing out.

It's like Chinese food. You go to a restaurant and tell the waiter not to put any soy sauce in your food, you don't like stir-fry, you don't eat meat or most vegetables. At a certain point, you know, maybe you should consider eating someplace else. You've listed all the things that make a Thoth deck a Thoth deck... but you don't want any of that.

So... honestly, if I were you I wouldn't bother.
 

Barleywine

Yep, you are, in fact, missing out.

I agree, but it's certainly not an irredeemable situation. Make yourself a cheat-sheet of brief correspondences (concepts, not just keywords) and keep it handy, add to it as you go. It's kind of like what Monty Python called "being-hit-over-the-head lessons," but eventually you will absorb and internalize the majority ot it. This won't help with the underlying philosophy: you still have to read and ponder a good deal to sort that out. But it will let you experiment with the underlying symbolism in a functional way, while at the same time increasing your exposure to the "surface" significance of the cards (which, of course, is still a far cry from the RWS and its clones).
 

fractalgranny

Yep, you are, in fact, missing out.

It's like Chinese food. You go to a restaurant and tell the waiter not to put any soy sauce in your food, you don't like stir-fry, you don't eat meat or most vegetables. At a certain point, you know, maybe you should consider eating someplace else. You've listed all the things that make a Thoth deck a Thoth deck... but you don't want any of that.

So... honestly, if I were you I wouldn't bother.

well, i'm certainly not going to stop using those decks because i really like them. i really like your metaphor of the chinese restaurant. having worked in chinatown for many years, i know quite a few people who love eating in chinese restaurants but will only eat two or three dishes on a menu of 50. maybe that's me?
 

fractalgranny

I agree, but it's certainly not an irredeemable situation. Make yourself a cheat-sheet of brief correspondences (concepts, not just keywords) and keep it handy, add to it as you go. It's kind of like what Monty Python called "being-hit-over-the-head lessons," but eventually you will absorb and internalize the majority ot it. This won't help with the underlying philosophy: you still have to read and ponder a good deal to sort that out. But it will let you experiment with the underlying symbolism in a functional way, while at the same time increasing your exposure to the "surface" significance of the cards (which, of course, is still a far cry from the RWS and its clones).

yeah, maybe i should always have duquette's book with me when i read the thoth.
 

Richard

......i'm not much into astrology or the qabala and to this day don't see the point of numerology - with this limited knowledge, am i missing too much about the intricacies of the thoth and thoth based cards?
If I'm not into vampires, why would I use a vampire deck?
 

UrbanBramble

From a person who tried very hard to study the Thoth and decided Thelema wasn't for them...

It's a deck that speaks loudly. When you start to know all of the intricacies it opens up for you in a way no other deck does. At least that was my experience, and I barely scratched the surface. I knew astrology before I came to it, made sure I understood elemental dignities, and used Crowley and DuQuette as references while reading with it. I finally realized that I have a pretty firm view on Thelema and even GD philosophy - which is that it's not in line with my world view - and I took a step back from it at that point. I will pull it out from time to time but I don't read with it much and I don't study it. When I do it's like studying the Bible even though I'm not Christian. I appreciate it for its historical and spiritual significance but personally I've moved more toward the TdM style reading, which I find to be refreshingly secular, or toward decks I can read intuitively.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I generally agree with other folks here, if you're not going to read with it using Crowley's philosophy, I'm not sure it's worth reading with. I do know readers IRL who use it as their primary deck and read intuitively with it, and they are very good, so it is possible. But for me it seemed to do the deck an injustice. The artwork is exquisite and stands very strongly in its own right so if it speaks to you in that way you still may want to try. Just know that you will be missing out on many, many layers of interpretation.
 

fractalgranny

Just know that you will be missing out on many, many layers of interpretation.

that's my question. what exactly am i missing out on? i guess it would be useful to get some readings from people firmly grounded in the thoth in order to understand that. maybe i'll post that in the exchanges, see what happens ...

and ...

If I'm not into vampires, why would I use a vampire deck?

interesting question, because i've come close to getting a vampire deck a few times and no, i'm not into vampires. however, the archetype "vampire" makes sense to me, and there may be situations where it's just the right deck.
 

Richard

that's my question. what exactly am i missing out on? i guess it would be useful to get some readings from people firmly grounded in the thoth in order to understand that. maybe i'll post that in the exchanges, see what happens.......

Most readers probably use an intuitive interpretation of the images without taking into account their intended esoteric symbolism. Also, the strange pictures and one's ability to "read" them may really impress some clients.

The Thoth makes heavy use of Qabalah, astrology, alchemy, and Egyptian mythology. I think that being "firmly grounded in the Thoth" should presuppose, at the very least, a certain degree of interest and knowledge of those subjects.

However, use it as thou wilt. My personal opinion matters not a whit.