The Tarot symbols origin

Cartomancer said:

Here is a mock-up of the TEMPERANCE card from Coelum Stellatum Christianum.

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Here is another mock-up, but this time it is the JUDGEMENT card over the stars of Andromeda and Pegasus in the Julius Schiller star atlas.

The JUDGEMENT card appears as the Angel Gabriel over the stars of Pegasus spliced together with the Holy Sepulchre over the stars of Andromeda (they are together in the sky) of Julius Schiller's Coelum Stellatum Christianum (1627). Notice the figures below the Sepulchre. Notice the flag on the Sepulchre.

JUDGEMENT
http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/Schiller-JUDGEMENT-389052325

Cartomancer said:

There are no existing star maps from the time that the Tarot was created that can be used to compare to the Major Arcana of the Tarot. Perhaps there are buildings such as churches that have constellational art on walls or ceilings.

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Hello Cartomancer,
I would be surprised to know that star maps where only invented after the XV century. I am pretty sure that you will find a lot of material if you do some research. A serious and informative book about astrological iconography you could consider reading is "The Survival of the Pagan Gods: Mythological Tradition in Renaissance Humanism and Art" by Jean Seznec.

An interesting mid XV century astrological cycle appears in the so called Griselda room, once in the Roccabianca Castle:
http://www.storiadimilano.it/Arte/roccabianca.htm
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.23...1645611&uid=2&uid=3&uid=60&sid=21102569494727

But please do some research yourself. Consider Seznec as a starting point, or any good history of astrology.

Exploring ancient astrological sources will certainly be instructive, but I think you should also examine medieval allegories in general, in order to get familiar with images such as Death, the Devil, the Wheel of Fortune. Once you know the many similar images that have been created through the centuries, it will be impossible for you to confuse the subjects of the tarot trumps with constellations. For instance, you will discover that Death could be represented both with a scythe and with a bow, and in tarot Death is represented with a scythe is some decks and in others with a bow. What does a scythe have to do with Sagittarius?

By the way, some tarot decks do contain some secondary astrological elements. For instance, the Sun and the Moon appear both in end of times narrations and in astrology. I am surprised by the fact that you interpret the Moon as a representation of the Cancer constellation: in the tarot trump as well as in astrological imagery, the cancer sign appears with the moon to illustrate "planet" moon. The main subject (the moon) is in the upper part of the image and the additional elements (cancer) in the lower part. For instance, this illustration makes part of a series of seven each corresponding to a different planet:
http://thule-italia.com/wordpress/archives/9245

But I cannot think of any case in which the moon is represented to illustrate the Cancer sign. In medieval astrology, the main concepts were the seven planets, that ruled the signs. So it would not be fit to use a "ruler" (the moon) to illustrate a lesser entity (a sign of the zodiac).

A less obvious astrological element (that you also missed) is the Old Man (the Hermit) which originally was represented with an hour glass or wings, all attributes of Time / Chronos / Saturn. This fact has been noted also by a few occultists, such as Papus and John Opsopaus. It is a pity to see such a powerful concept as Time and a prominent astral god as Saturn confused with the constellation of "Ophiuchius".

Schiller's Coelum Stellatum Christianum is more similar to Tarot than other representations of the firmament, because Schiller turned the astrological entities into moral Christian allegories, and Tarot also originally was a moral Christian allegory. Yet giving much important to such a parallel is misleading, since it does not correspond neither to the original meaning of tarot (which was not intended as a map) nor to the astrological views of the time when tarot was invented (which were largely independent from the Christian religion).

Alexander Jamieson’s Celestial Atlas

Cartomancer said:

Huck,
It appears as if the star maps by Johann Bayer bear less resemblance to the Tarot picture set that I postulate, so these star maps are too young for this study.
-Cartomancer, Lance Carter

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Looking at Alexander Jamieson’s Celestial Atlas which appeared in February 1822 it is clear to me that Jamieson's drawings are better and some parts are in color.

Anyway, here is a study of a selection of Major Arcana Tarot cards as constellations using Alexander Jamieson’s Celestial Atlas, which appeared in February 1822 and would be available for Waite and Smith to consult. These pictures by Jamieson offer a traditional (Classical) view of the constellations for the most part and may have features seen in early Tarot decks as well as the Waite-Smith deck, such as the seated royalty (Cassiopeia as the Empress and Cepheus as the Emperor).

The constellation Cassiopeia by Alexander Jamieson as the EMPRESS card in the Tarot.

http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/CASSIOPEIA-Jamieson-EMPRESS-389298708
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The constellation Cepheus by Alexander Jamieson as the EMPEROR card in the Tarot.

http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/CEPHEUS-Jamieson-EMPEROR-389299764
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The constellations Perseus and Andromeda by Alexander Jamieson are spliced together as the LOVERS card in the Tarot.

http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/PERSEUS-ANDROMEDA-Jamieson-LOVERS-389299547
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The constellation Sagittarius by Alexander Jamieson as the DEATH card in the Tarot.

http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/SAGITTARIUS-Jamieson-DEATH-389299295
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The constellation Capricorn by Alexander Jamieson as the DEVIL card in the Tarot.

http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/CAPRICORN-Jamieson-DEVIL-389298390
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The constellation Virgo by Alexander Jamieson as the WORLD card in the Tarot.

http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/VIRGO-Jamieson-WORLD-389298986
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The constellation Bootes by Alexander Jamieson as the FOOL card in the Tarot. Notice the hunting dogs to the right (Canes Venatici) and the mountain he stands upon (Mons Maenalus, which represents the Maenalus mountains, was created in 1687 by Johannes Hevelius).

http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/BOOTES-Jamieson-FOOL-389297909
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I don't think that the Waite-Smith deck had many influences from the Alexander Jamieson star maps, but these maps reveal the prevailing conception of the pictorial representation of the constellations when Waite-Smith created their deck.
- Cartomancer, Lance Carter

Hello Cartomancer,

Did you have a chance to analyze a symbolism of Dendera Zodiac? It consist of much older symbolical images of constellations.

Cartomancer said:

Hello Moonstranger, Please explain "thinner" as I don't understand the context. I also believe that there is a strong Egyptian connection involved in the origin of the alphabet and the Tarot.

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Let me explain my point of view. Apart of “coarse” (material) world there are 2 other worlds which were known is the past as subtle Astral plane(world) and Causal plane(world) - primary world of creation (Hindu Vedic cosmology, explained by Blavatsky). Or : Yav’ (material), Nav’(astral) and Prav’(causal) - the names from the ancient Slav’s cosmology. By the way, that’s the reason why the people who managed to see the Nav’ (Astral world) were called at one time Navin(s) – prophets (as Jesus Navin).

“Our” world is perceived as a material one, Astral world is called Subtle world, and the Causal world is, so to say, ultra-subtle so is the most “thinner” one. For instance in Upanishad they call it “thinner than thin” - means ultra-thing world or the world of spirit.
Every old religion attempted to explain what happened in the Causal world. Actually they tried to explain the process of the creation of the cosmos/universe – the only action which has been performed there. And the material world where we live only follows what has “happened already” in the Causal world. The process of “what happened there” was described everywhere by 22 steps.

I do think now that Major Arcana images are reflecting the process of the initial creation therefore they were explained in different regions of the Earth at different times with the same meaning.

When a prophet enters the ultra-thin world, he/she obtains in a flash the knowledge about this world and about its 22 powers. We as major part of people are following this way of evolution more slowly due to the inertia of the matter.

If you are new to the Historical Research section I recommend you spend time going through the archives where you'll find lots of historical evidence that you may be unaware of since much of it has not been published. There is a huge amount of data here relating to the images and writings that most likely influenced Tarot in its origins as well as at various stages. You'll also be surprised at how closely we have come to the probable date(s) of origin. I mention dates (plural) because it is apparent that several experiments with a Trump suit were made before it settled into the form we know today.

The Golden Dawn correspondences between Star Maps and Tarot are available in the various editions of the Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic. However, these did not appear to be the major influence for either the Crowley/Harris or Waite/Smith. And, of course, these have nothing to do with the origins of the Tarot symbols themselves in the 15th century. There is a correspondence to the astrological decans made by the Golden Dawn, as well as differing views of a decan-Tarot correspondence by others in the 19th century. There may even have been some thought given to the decans when the tarot was created in the 15th century, although no one-on-one correspondence has been shown.

Historical theories rely on evidence before they can really take their place in the historical canon, which we've been endeavoring to gather here. It's quite different from philosophy and religion except as we can demonstrate, with evidence, that certain ideas influenced an historical trend or except when we are tracing the historical development of an idea.

The Dendara Zodiac and the Tarot

Moonstranger said:

Hello Cartomancer,
Did you have a chance to analyze a symbolism of Dendara Zodiac? It consist of much older symbolical images of constellations.

Click to expand...

MoonShadow,
I couldn't find many images in the Dendara Zodiac that fit the Major Arcana of the Tarot, except that there is a possible connection between the Egyptian Sothis Cow, the Egyptian goddess Isis, and the STAR card. The DEATH card might have its origins in the Dendara Zodiac.

Here is a Dendara Zodiac link with graphics:
http://solariapublications.com/2011/04/09/hello-world/

The STAR card of the Tarot is definitely a picture of a constellation: Canis Major. Could there be an Egyptian influence on the Star card's creation?

The Sothis Cow with a big star between its horns lies between the Woman with a Bow and a perching hawk in the ancient Egyptian sky. Symbols of Isis include the sun disk with cow's horns, which indicates that Canis Major and the bright star Sirius are pictured in the Waite-Smith Tarot deck. The Babylonians pictured a female archer - possibly the warrior goddess Inanna - over the stars of Canis Major.

Note that the bird in the tree is Columba, a constellation created by Dutch astronomer Petrus Plancius in 1592, so it should only appear on decks after that. However, the bird could be modeled after the ancient Egyptian hawk on the Dendara Zodiac from an Egyptian viewpoint and could represent Horus, the hawk-headed god of war and protection.

Isis's healing spells usually invoked the healing powers of the milk of Isis, which may be an analogy of the Milky Way and the Nile river, which fills the river and floods the lands and is seen the the Waite-Smith STAR card.

Another connection is the ancient constellation Sagittarius the horseman and the DEATH card. The constellation Sagittarius has been pictured as a horseman since Babylon, so the Egyptians simply copied this constellation.

Please excuse these low-res mock-up images.

Here is a link to a mock up of the Egyptian Sothis Cow as the STAR card in the constellation Canis Major with the bright star SIRIUS.
http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/CANIS-MAJOR-Dendara-STAR-389590826

Here is a low-res color mock up of the Egyptian Sothis Cow as the STAR card in the constellation Canis Major with the bright star SIRIUS.
http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/CANIS-MAJOR-Dendara-STAR-Color-389599377

Here is a link to a mock-up of the Egyptian horseman-archer in the stars of Sagittarius.
http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/SAGITTARIUS-Dendara-DEATH-389603798

Here is a low-res color mock up of the Egyptian horseman-archer in the Stars of Sagittarius.
http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/SAGITTARIUS-Dendara-DEATH-Color-389605017

This is how I would picture as the WHEEL card if the Dendara Zodiac is used for a Tarot deck.
http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/POLAR-STARS-Dendara-WHEEL-389599558

This is how I would picture as the WHEEL card (in low res) if the Dendara Zodiac is used for a Tarot deck.
http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/POLAR-STARS-Dendara-WHEEL-COLOR-389600101

On another topic, I looked at the Atlas Coelestis by John Flamsteed, as well as star maps by Johannes Hevelius, Johann Elert Bode, and other maps created after the original Tarot deck was created, but haven't found great correspondence between figures in Waite's MA Tarot and figures on those star maps, although the same symbol motifs persist so I present the Wheel of Fortune mock-up using star maps by Flamsteed and Bode.

Here's a link to the star maps by Johannes Hevelius:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Uranographia_by_Johannes_Hevelius

Here is another look at the Wheel with the Northern Polar constellation art of Johann Elert Bode:
http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/POLAR-STARS-Bode-FORTUNE-389607050

Here is another look at the Wheel of Fortune with the Northern Polar constellation art of John Flamsteed:
http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/POLAR-STARS-Flamsteed-FORTUNE-389607368

I'd like to find some Arabic/Islamic star maps to try this theory on.
-Cartomancer, Lance Carter

Cartomancer said:

The STAR card of the Tarot is definitely a picture of a constellation: Canis Major.

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Hello Cartomancer,
in my opinion, what you call "the star card of the tarot" is a wide category, including many different star cards.

* Visconti-Sforza (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Star_visconti-sforza.jpg)
* Rosenwald Tarot (http://tarotmeditations.wordpress.com/decks/rosenwald/16-the-star-2/)
* the Cary-Sheet (http://newsletter.tarotstudies.org/2004/12/the-mysterious-cary-sheet/)

Could you please explain why all these cards "definitely" picture Canis Major?

I think that what these cards have in common is the representation of Stars, with different secondary elements.

The sequence Stars-Moon-Sun-Judgement corresponds to the end of times as described in the Book of Revelation. Can you see Stars, the Moon, the Sun and an Angel playing his trumpet in the image linked below?
Illustration of the 4th Trumpet
Incidentally, can you see that there are birds in the trees also in this illumination? Why should it be necessary to postulate a reference to Petrus Plancius to explain the bird we see on TdM Star cards?

Can you see stars, the Moon, the Sun and an Angel playing his trumpet in Visconti-Sforza tarot or in Conver TdM?

Are you sure that the following passage is totally unrelated with Conver's "Le Monde" or the Sforza Castle world card?

Revelation 4 said:

And the first beast was like a lion,
and the second beast like a calf,
and the third beast had a face as a man,
and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

Click to expand...

Cartomancer said:

Could there be an Egyptian influence on the Star card's creation?

Click to expand...

I cannot think of how Egypt could explain the cards above, nor any other pre-XVIII century tarot card. There is no direct Egyptian influence on Tarot (nor, possibly, on any other early XV century Italian work of art). Ancient tarot decks (with very few exceptions) include a few obviously Christian images, the most obvious being the Pope, the Devil and Judgement. Other cards correspond to subjects that often appeared in moral allegories (e.g. the Virtues, Love, Fortune, Death). I think that it makes much more sense to try and understand Tarot in the context of Christian moral allegories than in the context of ancient Egypt. Christianity was common place in XV century Europe, while ancient Egypt was totally unknown but to very few scholars (and their knowledge was always mediated by Latin/Greek sources).

DoctorArcanus said:

Christianity was common place in XV century Europe, while ancient Egypt was totally unknown but to very few scholars (and their knowledge was always mediated by Latin/Greek sources).

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I was certainly astonished by R. Decker's latest work, around his Egyptian claims. Now we have to deal with all this pernicious myth-making again, just when I felt as if most folks were on board with the facts.

frelkins said:

I was certainly astonished by R. Decker's latest work, around his Egyptian claims. Now we have to deal with all this pernicious myth-making again, just when I felt as if most folks were on board with the facts.

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That has me curious about what Decker's "Egyptian claims" are. Anyone care to comment?

Huck said:

In the recent past (a few years ago) the researcher Diane O'Donovan offered the idea, that the Tarot cards developed from earlier Arabic star pictures (14th century and older). She saw a context between the Arabic Compass and the cards (especially those of the Charles VI Tarocchi). In the case, that I understood her correctly, she saw 16 star picture elements used for the wind-rose of the compass (it was difficult to understand her arguments). A 17th element was used for the middle in her opinion.

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Hi Huck,

I found this reference to Diane O'Donovan in reference to Arabic, but the links I found only related to the Voynich Manuscript. Are there links to her Tarot theory on the web?

http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2012/03/18/2012-arabic-voynich-theory