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Stele of Revealing..how vital is it?

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Abrac  Abrac is offline
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Stele of Revealing..how vital is it?


The more research I do on the hieroglyphs on the Stele, the more clear it becomes that Crowley didn't really have that firm a grasp of what it was actually all about. This raises a few thought-provoking questions.

What is the relationship between the Stele and the Book of the Law? Does it play as crucial a role to the formation of Thelema as modern scholarship would lead us to believe? If the archetypal messengers known as Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit represent the figures on the Stele, did they try to convey to Crowley the true meaning of the Stele through the BoL? Or was the Stele simply the catalyst, something that sparked Crowley's thought processes and affirmed to him Rose's mediumistic abilities?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac
If the archetypal messengers known as Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit represent the figures on the Stele, did they try to convey to Crowley the true meaning of the Stele through the BoL?
What exactly are you trying to say here? Archetypal messengers? What? Who?

There is only one messenger in the Book of the Law. Aiwass. He takes on three different personae. One for each chapter. I guess you didn't spot that.

The deities in the Book of the Law are personified cosmic principles, forces of nature, aspects of ourselves. Human beings generally have an easier time relating to such forms, than to abstract principles.

You do realise that Nuit, Hadit, and Ra Hoor Khuit are merely convenient names and symbols for "something" that the human mind can't fully comprehend. By using these symbols we can relate to these abstract concepts, get a hold on them and work with them. In a way it wouldn't matter if you changed the names to Sally, Dave, and John. Like the Tao Te Ching says, "the name is not the thing named".

It's a shame Mr Karlin doesn't get this point either.
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I wonder things like this about every belief system I encounter. How much of what we think we know really came from some human's drug-induced musings at a flashpoint in their life? Not to say that any of the variables causing or facilitating the experience validate or negate the Truth behind the experiment.

What kind of religion will they "resurrect" based on remnants of modern-day civilizations? What a joke it will be if they ascribe great wisdom, powers and abilities to us the way we do to our ancestors!

I don't know enough about Crowley, Thelema, or Egyptology to begin to assess what is useful about the Stele. I'm very interested to see what kind of thoughts everyone else posts.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardlady22
What kind of religion will they "resurrect" based on remnants of modern-day civilizations? What a joke it will be if they ascribe great wisdom, powers and abilities to us the way we do to our ancestors!
haha Yes, in a couple thousand years, there will be fierce discussion about how exactly the modern understanding of the Great God Brad Pitt is different to the form worshiped by us ancients Our ancestors will have got it all wrong by recognising his marriage to the demon Angelina Jolie, when clearly the only theologically correct marriage would be to the queen of heaven, Jennifer Aniston The one true original religion. (Yay team Aniston)

Any future religion using good old Brad as an expression of a principle is clearly not a resurrection of modern "theology", nor Hollywood fact. What is important would be how they use that figure. Lets face it, even aside from my silly metaphors, the same happens in actual religions. Is modern Catholicism very similar to early Christian groups? Nope. Does that mean Catholics are not true Christians? Nope, just means they are not the same religion, but have a degree of shared symbolism. (Did you know Jesus wasn't even his real name? )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac
Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit represent the figures on the Stele, did they try to convey to Crowley the true meaning of the Stele through the BoL?
I think it's the other way around. The figures on the Stele represent Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit (to Thelemites). The figures on the Stele also represent Nut, Behdet, and Re-Horakhty (to ancient Egyptians and those interested in studying them). The BoL in no way conveys the meaning of the Stele. It is not meant to, and does not. The Stele's is an artifact from the funeral of an ancient Egyptian, which includes symbolism bastardized by Crowley to express something completely different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac
Does it play as crucial a role to the formation of Thelema as modern scholarship would lead us to believe?
The Stele does not play a crucial role in the theology of Thelema, but it does play a crucial role in its formation. Theology and formation being completely different things. Its primary importance is as proof of Rose's psychic experience. It was Rose (Crowley's wife, who had no knowledge of Egyptian religion, or magick) who started receiving communication from other entities. The Stele's important in that sense, in that she was able to correctly identify a representation of Horus, that included the catalogue number 666 and get Crowley's attention. This lead to Crowley performing the ceremony that lead to the Book of Law. The BoL is not a manual on how to use the Stele. The BoL is a manual on how to understand and practice Thelema. The Stele is a part of the story of how Crowley came to receive the BoL, and was woven into the mythology by Crowley. Not the other way around as you seem to be suggesting Abrac.

A connection between Thelema and the gods of ancient Egypt is not there, and should not be, apart from some shared symbolism.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by similia
I think it's the other way around. The figures on the Stele represent Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit (to Thelemites). The figures on the Stele also represent Nut, Behdet, and Re-Horakhty (to ancient Egyptians and those interested in studying them). The BoL in no way conveys the meaning of the Stele. It is not meant to, and does not. The Stele's is an artifact from the funeral of an ancient Egyptian, which includes symbolism bastardized by Crowley to express something completely different.
This is the conclusion I am slowly coming 'round to. It's a little confusing because the "discovery" of the Stele came first chronologically. But its import to the overall scheme of Thelema seems to come after the BoL.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by similia
Not the other way around as you seem to be suggesting Abrac.
I'm not trying to suggest anything. I'm trying to understand. Just thought I would clear that up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac
This is the conclusion I am slowly coming 'round to. It's a little confusing because the "discovery" of the Stele came first chronologically. But its import to the overall scheme of Thelema seems to come after the BoL.
My thinking is that Stele served only as one of the things that lead Crowley to receive the BoL, the BoL is the real thing of importance. But, every theology must have some kind of symbol, or physical representation of either their gods, or philosophy. An idol of some kind or another. Even more so if your theology is based around practical magic, when your target audience is a bunch of folks really keen on snazzy looking tools.

And so years later, when Crowley eventually decided to accept and make use of what was revealed in the BoL, and found the text of the BoL lost in a corner of his attic, (I theorize) the Stele was chosen as a visual representation of the BoL's principals. The Stele being ideal because it was part of the story of the reception of the book, though I think only indirectly related to the actual text by their common symbols.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac
I'm not trying to suggest anything. I'm trying to understand. Just thought I would clear that up.
Fair enough
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Quote:
Originally Posted by similia
And so years later, when Crowley eventually decided to accept and make use of what was revealed in the BoL, and found the text of the BoL lost in a corner of his attic, (I theorize) the Stele was chosen as a visual representation of the BoL's principals. The Stele being ideal because it was part of the story of the reception of the book, though I think only indirectly related to the actual text by their common symbols.
Bear in mind that the stele is also directly mentioned in the text itself. (3:10, 3:19)

For the obscure reference (Abomination of Desolation) see:

Daniel 8:13, 11:31, 12:11

Matthew 24:15

Mark 13:14*
(See also the previous verse, 13:13, for Perdurabo. )
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Talking Paint your own


A line drawing of the stele.
http://tamesa.abrahadabra.net/wp-con...inedrawing.pdf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
Bear in mind that the stele is also directly mentioned in the text itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoL3.10
Get the stélé of revealing itself; set it in thy secret temple— and that temple is already aright disposed— & it shall be your Kiblah for ever. It shall not fade, but miraculous colour shall come back to it day after day. Close it in locked glass for a proof to the world.
Did Crowley or anyone else actually get the original Stele. I understood he had a copy made, and so assumed the original stayed with the museum.
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