Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive

T. of Prague Cafe Club--5 of Pentacles

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Tarot Study Groups > Individual Deck Studies > Tarot of Prague


 
baba-prague's Avatar
baba-prague  baba-prague is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 24 Nov 2002
Location: Prague, wonderful Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 7,626
baba-prague 
Citizen

baba-prague's Avatar
this is the original statue


As I say, not so different from the original. But you may be able to see the second child on her right-hand side (it's a shame the upload is so small). Oh - and of course the old man. He is quite clear even at this size.
Also, you can see why the original context made us think about the idea of appealing for help (or of not asking for it) that is so central to this card.

I think I should add one more thing, which is that you do often see beggars around the Charles Bridge. They are usually old men here - not homeless youngsters but elderly tramps, often with a drink problem. The statue that we used for the Six of Pentacles is also taken from an area that tends to have beggars (we were actually followed by a beggar the whole time we were photographing the woman for the Six). So you may well see either of these statues with actual beggars in front of them. It brings things home and makes them "real" somehow. Like everyone, I have mixed feelings towards begging on the street (I feel much happier giving to charities like Oxfam where I know the money will be well spent). There are real issues around charity and how we feel about it - if we think the other person is "worthy" or - if we are the ones in need of charity - if we think it is demeaning to ask. I love Rachel Pollack's discussion in "78 Degrees" of these issues around giving and receiving charity and we wanted some of the tension and questioning and - let's face it - the sheer upset of seeing another person in distress - to be communicated.

The lack of colour is deliberate of course, but it does make this card very gloomy when compared to the others. Sometimes I have wondered if it's too forbidding for readings. But it has a certain harsh beauty too - like the statue itself.

Oh dear - better stop there!

By the way, I am away from 23rd and won't have much email access, so I may go very quiet over Christmas - perhaps a good thing!
Attached Images
 
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #11
Ruby Red Slippers's Avatar
Ruby Red Slippers  Ruby Red Slippers is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 20 Feb 2003
Location: On the Magic Carpet
Posts: 913
Ruby Red Slippers 
Citizen

Ruby Red Slippers's Avatar

Quote: By Baba...
________________________________________________
There are real issues around charity and how we feel about it - if we think the other person is "worthy" or - if we are the ones in need of charity - if we think it is demeaning to ask. I love Rachel Pollack's discussion in "78 Degrees" of these issues around giving and receiving charity and we wanted some of the tension and questioning and - let's face it - the sheer upset of seeing another person in distress - to be communicated.
________________________________________________

This is why I think this card is such a cool segway to the 6 of Pents where the top right corner shows him putting bread in the other's mouth.....

RRS
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #12
baba-prague's Avatar
baba-prague  baba-prague is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 24 Nov 2002
Location: Prague, wonderful Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 7,626
baba-prague 
Citizen

baba-prague's Avatar

ah, but look very carefully (I'm sorry, it's one of the things in our cards that needs a magnifying glass). The person who is putting the bread in another's mouth is a devil. This little pair are inside the main cathedral (St Vitus") at Prague Castle. There are so many ways to interpret what this could mean. For me, it means that to give freely and in the right spirit is angelic, but to force unwanted charity on someone else (perhaps to make yourself feel good) can be a very bad thing.

But maybe it originally referred to the temptation of Christ? I don't in fact think so though, as the man looks more like an ordinary medieval peasant.

In the end I find this pair endlessly fascinating.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #13
Alta's Avatar
Alta  Alta is offline
Golden Silvery Dionna
 
Join Date: 06 Aug 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 27,056
Alta 
Golden Silvery Dionna

Alta's Avatar

Thank you all for this discussion, it has opened my eyes to some aspects of these cards. The issue of charity, of giving and not giving, taking and not taking are powerful themes for me. The 5 of pentacles is always a very strong disturbing card, almost regardless of the deck, and the ToP representation also brings in the theme of caretaking (mother and child) and the added layer of responsibility around giving and receiving in that.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #14
Moongold  Moongold is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 7,723
Moongold 
Citizen

Yes indeed.

And this experience also reminded me of how much of my own perspective I bring to the cards, and how important it is for me to be OPEN to other views.

How valuable thse discussions are!

Moongold
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #15
punchinella's Avatar
punchinella  punchinella is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Jul 2003
Location: longing for Kansas
Posts: 1,547
punchinella 
Citizen

punchinella's Avatar

Yes Moongold, I've been just meaning to point that out, but you beat me to it! I've been a bit surprised to see how consistently 'negative' (if that's the right word?) everyone else's views of this card are . . . when to me, on a gut level, the card feels comforting & empowering. Even the lack of colour which baba seems worried about appeals to me . . . of all the cards in the deck, at this point in time, this feels the most like home (which is why I picked it!) The only explanation for this is, of course, personal perspective.

5 of Pents is really, after all, not such a terrible place to be. Sanctuary IS available--well, debates about whether or not the doors are locked aside, the church is at least there . . . She's not exactly stranded in the Arctic . . .

On the other hand, maybe I'm just having trouble seeing negativity because the card is too beautiful

P.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #16
Moongold  Moongold is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 7,723
Moongold 
Citizen

Yes, there is more to it than charity too. This particular version of the card shows the woman and her baby in a situation which is open to interpretation. Whilst some of us see pain, it is also possible to see strength. Look at the arms on the woman! Don't they inicate strength? and she could equally be seen to be holding the baby in a defiantly independent way. other version of the card have images less open to the pain interpretation.

I think of women who choose to have children knowing it will not be easy. 13 years ago a friend decided to have a baby despite knowing it would have mild intellectual deficit. Another friend has a daughter with global developmental delay. This young woman has always been severely disabled but is much loved by both parents, especially her mother. Her mother has always seen this as a karmic opportunity to nurture who daughter in a way that she was never nurtured, but it has been very hard.

I always see this card as the quintessential card of the outsider. My experience has been that sometimes the position of outsider is a choice and sometimes it is not, but it is almost always understood.

Despite the bleakness of the Prague version of this card outsiderdom is often not bleak I think it can still be interpreted as indicating certain existential and conscious, not necessarily unhappy, choices.

Moongold
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #17
galadrial's Avatar
galadrial  galadrial is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Mar 2003
Location: Water Cup Desert
Posts: 605
galadrial 
Citizen

galadrial's Avatar

Quote:
Originally posted by Moongold
Despite the bleakness of the Prague version of this card outsiderdom is often not bleak I think it can still be interpreted as indicating certain existential and conscious, not necessarily unhappy, choices.

Moongold
That is lovely, Moongold. Yes, I can see that with her back to the church, the interpretation could just as easily be that she has decided she does not wish to enter; that she feels competent to weather this storm, and knows that bad weather will eventually be followed by good.
In the "Book of Chaos" deck, the 5 of Pents. shows some vagrants standing casually in the rain. The booklet says, in part: "Spirituality often flourishes in materially barren circumstances. The vagrants depicted seem unperturbed by their situation."
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #18
punchinella's Avatar
punchinella  punchinella is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Jul 2003
Location: longing for Kansas
Posts: 1,547
punchinella 
Citizen

punchinella's Avatar

That chaos take is very cool galadrial. I actually went looking around for scans of this deck after reading your post, but couldn't find any.

--To add still more about ToP 5 of Pents:

Today (Christmas Day) I found myself inside the card! --Probably because I've been focusing so much on it lately . . . Anyway, what happened was this: Around dusk (my favorite time of day) I set out for a run, in spite of the fact that with a fresh case of respiratory flu, I'm not really *supposed* to be running . . . everything was fine (well--breathing was painful at first, but endorphins had kicked in & I was pretty much adjusted) when, suddenly, a pellet-shaped substance mid-way between hail & snow appeared in the air around me & started to bite the skin of my face. Normally this would be fine, but because of my flu condition a red light went off in my head: I'm exposed, I thought, this isn't exactly good . . . At the same time, I took a look at the world around me. I was running along a very high ledge, overlooking a greenish-gray & still river, with plenty of gray defoliated brush & a gray stone wall between me & it . . . The sky above was gray, the sidewalk below my feet was gray, the empty street beside me was gray . . . There was absolutely no one around, the scene was quite desolate, & when the air filled with white pellets (after momentarily panicking) I realized: This IS 5 of Pentacles. I have arrived . . . I'm here. It was beautiful: a perfect moment.

--Thank you baba, for creating a card that I felt blessed to 'enter.'

P.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #19
galadrial's Avatar
galadrial  galadrial is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Mar 2003
Location: Water Cup Desert
Posts: 605
galadrial 
Citizen

galadrial's Avatar

I love your story, punchinella; I've occasionally found myself "inside" cards as well, and it is a very special sensation.

I hesitated to give the link for the Chaos 5 of Pents. because I didn't want to get onto discussing a different deck too much on this thread, and also because they are currently sold out and I didn't want to contribute to generating interest in a deck that is impossible to get (at least until the second printing, which was slated for 2003 but hasn't yet manifested). However, the card does have that interesting slant that I think can be a way of looking at baba's card, and a picture IS worth a thousand words, so... www.crossroads.wild.net.au/tarot.htm - keep scrolling, the 5 of Pentacles is about halfway down the page:-)

Apologies for veering off of your deck momentarily, baba. I love this card's powerful imagery and do not think it is too forbidding for readings. I also agree with Marion that the mother and child aspect is important in that actions you might not consider on your own behalf you might undertake for the sake of your child's material welfare (Pents.), and that extra layer of responsibility adds to the stress inherent in the five.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #20


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2017 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.