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T. of Prague Cafe Club--5 of Pentacles

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Thanks for the link galadrial, I'm sure no one here will mind! (--interesting deck--love some of the cards, hate others . . . 5 of Pents reminds me of 'A Little Princess'--sounds corny, but I did so love that book as a kid . . . )

OKAY, enough about chaos deck (unless somebody else has something to add) . . .

P.
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This is all very interesting and has helped me view this card in so many different ways. Just focusing on this card whilst reading your posts has brought it to life for me. Thank-you all. My eye keeps being drawn to the geometry in the background. The circle within the square, the upturned triangle above the door. I have looked this up and you might already know that 'squaring the circle' represents unity within structure. The triangle - 'humanitys ascent to heaven'. Is this woman turning her back on structure, conformity, tradition? Is her destitution of her own doing?
Also, there is another person on the steps in the bottom left hand corner. Is he relevant?

J
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Wow Punchinella, you surely picked a powerful card to kick off these discussions!!! And a difficult, deep-end one - I think I would have run from this one, but the insights and detail in your post and everyone else's posts in this thread made me stop and look closer, and it's been well worth it - many thanks to all of you.
The card makes me shiver - the greyness of this slice of life, the unrelenting weather. It alarms me the way the baby lolls away from the woman - you would think the natural reaction in such adversity and cold would be for the woman to hold the child close and transmit whatever warmth she has left to it. Has this woman suffered so much that she's gone beyond the norms of human behaviour? I think of single mothers in past times, how they were made to suffer shame, and often poverty, simply for bringing a child into the world!
There's a look of sacrifice to this tableau - woman's posture seems to say to the cold heavens - that's it I can't handle it anymore, here we are, do your worst, go on, strike us down. She's surrendered completely to suffering; she's hitting rock-bottom. She's in a different world to the calm artistry of the cathedral behind her. She's learning to pray from the very depths of her being. Maybe this is where she's meant to be - a place of instability and learning, a place from which the only way is up. Let's hope her prayer is so pure it cannot but be heard.
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"My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?"

This is what goes through my head when I look at this card. This woman feels totally abandoned. She looks up towards the heavens, holds out her hand toward her child and says, "will you forsake my innocent child as well?"

She is expecting to be taken care of. The Church behind her is indicating to me that she needs to get up and take action. The Church is there, she only needs to walk through the door. Sometimes this card means to me self pity. Or passiveness. Not being aware of all your options. Not seeing an opportunity.

Mimi
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I prefer to see this card as a tough place from which growth can happen. The instability of five after the safe place of the four. Going, or being put, out on a limb. I'd prefer to think that this woman is learning to pray for herself, that she doesn't need the mediation of church or clergy, that she's learning what it is to communicate with the divine, to ask for help in the most basic, and the purest way possible, off her own bat. A kind of independent prayer - out in the elements, rather than in the cloistered atmosphere of traditional religion. It doesn't change the fact that she's in a rough place. There are no guarantees, she may yet sink or swim.
But I'm afraid a lot of my own prejudices are showing through in that particular interpretation, Mimi, , and anyway the cards are rich and flexible enough to sustain many interpretations and many shades of meaning - that's the beauty of them, isn't it?!
Kate
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bean Feasa
But I'm afraid a lot of my own prejudices are showing through in that particular interpretation, Mimi, , and anyway the cards are rich and flexible enough to sustain many interpretations and many shades of meaning - that's the beauty of them, isn't it?!
Kate
Yes indeed Kate. The cards are beautiful and full of many different ways of interpretations. She may also have been turned away from the Church, her last hope. Each time, I often see the cards differently. It is wonderful.

Mimi
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This is such an interesting card. Thanks to all above for such great reading and insight. As I thaw out from another harsh New England January's day, I found this a great card to begin my pondering of this wonderful deck.

Karen, I know I told you when I purchased my first deck how much it meant to me, but the more I look into the cards and see the layers of complexity evolving from something which on the surface looks so simple ........

This card seems to be so simple on the surface. A woman holding a baby in a snowstorm in front of an opulent church. However, two things stand out to me which have already been mentioned. The contorted face of the woman and the body language between herself and the baby. When I first got the deck, the face really bothered me. I couldn't say why, but it really gnawed away at me. I really believe this is the card of total self-doubt in the wake of making a tough decision.

It is so much more powerful than the RWS version. I find that to be a sad card, not a powerful one (pardon my comparisons, but the RWS is so entrenched in my brain that I ultimately have to compare). For so many years, I saw the RWS as a woman with her child passing a church. As I take out the Universal RW and look at it closer, I am not so sure anymore that this is a child. In fact, a hint of a beard is showing, telling me the person is more mature. Furthermore, the woman seems to be ignoring the beauty of the stained glass while the younger person seems to be drawn to it. One last comparison made me REALLY think of this card - I recently purchased the Tarot of the New Vision which shows the "other side" of the view shown in the RWS. This made me wonder about the woman's decision to pass by the church - how do WE know that what is inside is actually better than where she is going? All we see is the outside of the church. We assume that the comfort of keeping warm in a house of God is the better choice, but do we know for sure? Perhaps she is confident that around the corner is a sanctuary that will be better for her, or more importantly, her child.

Yes, I see the tortured look on her face that a decision has been made and that the child is resisting. She still has doubts that her decision is the right one, but she has turned her head to hide these doubts. Ultimately, it may not work out, but something powerful made this woman make this decision and she is gambling the life of her and her baby on it. In a reading, I would probably interpret this as a caution to someone to really think through any major decisions because the repercussions will not only affect them, but others as well.
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When in need, we don't necesserily see the help and ressources available. I think it is the case here.
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this is one of the cards in the deck that i don't quite get, or understand. I read intuitively but still with some key elelments taken from RWS and others.
this is to me a very disconcerting card. it is a pentacle card but so blunt in the 'grayness' or melancholy of the image.

how do you read it usually in a spread? as an event or person or feeling mostly???

what i gather when it comes up is something in the theme of...not seeing what you (may) have or is coming to you from the unexpected places. melancholy of what you used to be or have and longing for the past. a drastic financial change coming your way and most likely from where you don't expect it.

any other input?

yara
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