History of the High Priestess

This is a wonderful thread. I would like to relate a peice of my personal History. I went to a Catholic college throughtout my schooling, run by a Order called the Sisters of Mercy. They were a completly autonomous order and did not answer to the Catholic Diocese. On the Hall wall was a Motto
'Act well your part for there all Honour Lies'(In Latin) Flanking either side was two works of Art that puzzled me all through my schooling. I asked, and was told they were by Jan van Eyck(presumably reproductions in oil). The left side was seated female with book and crown. Underneath was written "Hail Queen of Heaven" Her face was black as in Negro. On the right of the motto was what was an evidently male figure facing forward, right hand held up , staff in left hand and triple crown on a female head. Underneath was written"Blessed Mother Church". It always looked odd to me. I presumed that the crowned Black virgin was Mary Magdelene, I must have thought the Right figure was a pun on the Pope specifically because I asked a Nun "why a female pope?" She told me women have really always run the church, but men don't know it.There're Irish after all with a laugh. I researched many years ago and the only similiar Artwork I.ve found is The Ghent Altarpeice with very obvious alterations! Odd eh. Regards Rosanne

Well, that's very interesting Rosanne! In Provençal and in Rom (gipsy) lore, they tell the story of the Virgin and the Black Virgin who arrived from Palestine on a small boat with an attendant named Sarah (or Suzannah, in some tales). The Black Virgin and the attendant are said to have been Rom, and I seem to remember that the Black Virgin might have been Mary Magdalen (I find it hard to reconcile with the idea of MM as a repentent sinner, however). They decked in Camargue, at Saintes-Maries-de la Mer, so called because of the Maries who arrived there (South of France, by the Mediterranean), and went to evangelise Europe. Every year in May, the Rom make a mass pilgrimage to Les Saintes-Maires-de-la-Mer. It's quite an event, and the Black Virgin, who wears a tiara (I can't remember if it's triple, however) is carried in glory.

I had no idea the story had reached Ireland, much less New Zealand!

Come to think of it, Rom women are particularly involved in this festival.

Helvetica, earlier you wrote something about me illuminating new paths, which is the goal I seek in most postings at this site... thanks! Now it appears you can return the favor. You said, "Cathar written sources remain." Can you please direct me to those sources?

wandking said:

Helvetica, earlier you wrote something about me illuminating new paths, which is the goal I seek in most postings at this site... thanks! Now it appears you can return the favor. You said, "Cathar written sources remain." Can you please direct me to those sources?

Click to expand...

Here's one place to start:

http://jean.duvernoy.free.fr/sources/soriginal.htm

It's in French and divided into: original sources; polemical sources; and inquisitorial sources (the page I link to is original sources, the other two are linked in small print at the bottom). It also contains sources for the Waldensian heresy and the Beguines (divided in the same fashion).

Amongst other books on Medieval heresies, Jean Duvernoy first published the French version of the Registers of the Inquisition of Jacques Fournier (the Inquisitor of Montaillou, later Pope Benedict XII).

I'll look up in the bibliographies of the latest books on Cathar history to see if there's any more -it'll take me a few days.

thanks, I'll look forward to them... i hope they're in English... A broader grasp of languages would have made my previous research easier... If only I read French... LOL

Hi Sophie

Helvetica said:

BTW - can you link me to the places on the internet, apart from this forum, where you have posted your Papesse studies? I am very interested and - you have whetted my appetite - becoming as hungry as you are

Sophie

Click to expand...

Here is a list of my own brief notes and an essay, and some printer's devices I've found, along with some other interesting pictures of Papesse -

ESSAYS AND NOTES ON THE PAPESSE

Pope Joan and Tarot Popess
http://www.angelfire.com/space/tarot/papessa.html

The Names Papessa and Papesse in the 15th century –
http://www.geocities.com/anytarot/namepapesse.html

Comparison of two 15th century Papesse –
http://www.angelfire.com/space/tarot/slipper.html

ECCLESIA AS PAPESSE IN ART OUTSIDE OF TAROT –

1571 and 1588 Ecclesiae-Papesse (Vasari/Kaplan/James Revak) -
http://www.villarevak.org/temp/papess.html
1571 detail -http://www.villarevak.org/g_temp/xvasari.jpg
1588 detail - http://www.villarevak.org/g_temp/xpapess.jpg

1601-1679 Ecclesia-Papesse in Printers’ Marks.
http://geocities.com/anytarot/papessa.html
(cf. http://eclipsi.bib.ub.es/cgi-bin/awecgi?db=imp&pa=10&o1=getent&x1=IMP&k1=6891
for another version of Baglioni’s mark)

1678 Ecclesia-Papesse
http://geocities.com/anytarot/papessa2.html

1679 Ecclesia-Papesse
http://geocities.com/anytarot/gerbaispapesse.html

1743 Ecclesia-Papesse
http://geocities.com/anytarot/churchpapesse.html

1879 Ecclesia-Papesse of Pope Leo XIII
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/leoXIII-1879.jpg

Thank you very much, Ross.

I'll start browsing and reading this evening. I am expecting a new printer this week, it will be handy.
Sophie

wandking said:

thanks, I'll look forward to them... i hope they're in English... A broader grasp of languages would have made my previous research easier... If only I read French... LOL

Click to expand...

Neither French nor English, wandking...they're in Occitan and in Latin. Hope you have some handy dictionaries

you wrote "http://jean.duvernoy.free.fr/sources/soriginal.htm

It's in French and divided into: original sources;" I opened it and saw a foreign language... Do you mean the actual texts at that site are in Latin and Occitan. I might be able to download a Latin translator but I doubt I'll find any software to translate Occitan... Can you tell me more about this language?

wandking said:

I doubt I'll find any software to translate Occitan... Can you tell me more about this language?

Click to expand...

There should be some translations by Duvernoy into French.

Occitan - known in the Middle Ages as Romans and later as Langue d'oc is the native language of what is now the South of France (it was annexed by France - via a marriage - following the crusade against the Albigensians). It's still spoken and written though obviously has evolved since the 12th Century, and sadly French has rather edged it out of everyday use. It was once considered the language of literature and culture in Europe - at the time of the troubadours, who coexisted with the Cathars in a vital, open society, before it was attacked. It's very beautiful. Its closest cousin, I am told, is Catalan, though Italian is close ot the Provençal form of the language. Ross could probably tell you a lot more, he lives in the heart of the region!