mixed elemental dignities court cards

MR GREEN

Hi can anyone tell me what are the mixed elements for the court cards in the RWS.. I have come across them with the Thoth deck. Are they the same, or is this one of the secrets that Crowley gave out. Mr green.
 

Zephyros

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Each Court is attributed to three decans, belonging to three Minors, with one of them being in a different suit, hence element, from the Court in question. Is that what you mean? Because as far as I know, each Court is still judged according to its predominant element, at least when dealing with elemental dignities. If you're analyzing the personality of each Court, it's a different story.
 

tigerlilybug

I'm a little confused on what you mean... page,knight,queen and king are earth,air,water,fire then each suit is also in the mix Pentacles/earth,cups/water,swords/air,wands/fire so King of Pentacles is fire of earth. My apologies if that is not what you were asking.

Edited: my post info is not the traditional RWS dignities I think it's from the GD or partially so I got the info through more of an astrological aspect. I just wanted to add that after other posters replied with differing views.
 

MR GREEN

Yes That's it Thanks, Tigerlilybug . Mr Green...
 

Zephyros

Except that Waite lied about that
 

Poor Wandering One

Right. In the Waite-Smith deck, Fire of Earth would be the Knight of Pentacles.
 

tigerlilybug

Right. In the Waite-Smith deck, Fire of Earth would be the Knight of Pentacles.

Yes I agree knights and kings can be switched I just had a discussion about this recently trying to figure out which way to read I'm not sure if it helps or hinders to view in both ways. I think for me personally I want to stick with just one view point for that.
 

tigerlilybug

Except that Waite lied about that

Would you mind further elaborating on that? I'm just now reading more into this subject so I'm curious to hear all possibilities.
 

Richard

Except that Waite lied about that
Where does Waite mention anything about the elemental attributions of the courts? I believe you may be thinking beyond the immediate issue. ;) }) Regardless of that, the usual elemental associations favored for the Waite deck seem to be:

Kings - Air
Queens - Water
Knights - Fire
Pages - Earth

Wands - Fire
Cups - Water
Swords - Air
Pentacles - Earth

Thus, for example, Queen of Pentacles is Water of Earth, King of Cups is Air of Water, etc.
 

Zephyros

Where does Waite mention anything about the elemental attributions of the courts? I believe you may be thinking beyond the immediate issue. ;) })

Good point. :)

However, it could be argued that the elements are implied. If you change the order of the Courts, the elemental attributions cease to make sense. Whoever the consort of the Queen is, he must be Fire, Air would serve no purpose at that position. How it is, exactly, that the fire behaves is where Waite gets muddled. In fact, the whole thing becomes topsy-turvy, because Waite's ordering means that the Queen would have to look back at her husband, and then go forward to having babies. After all, being seated on his throne, if it really is the King, he wouldn't come to her. Now, knowing how babies are made, this is obviously an absurdity. What we need for the Queen is someone who goes forth towards her and give her the force needed for her work, otherwise she ain't got nuthin'. Plus, a seated King wouldn't know what to do with fire if it bit him in the behind (which may very well be the case).

Possibly Waite never got the talk about the birds and the bees.

In any case, the true attributions are correct not only "just because," but because they make sense, and show how things actually work.

Fire: Knight
Water: Queen
Air: King
Earth: Page

The cards themselves do, in fact, show this correctly; it is only in the PKT where Waite both lies outright and lies by omission.