The Fool as Orion (split from Greater Arcana Study Group—The Fool )

Gofannon

Hi, I'm new here. I just skimmed through this whole thread, and with all this "Foolish" talk I haven't noticed that anyone has made the connection between the Fool and Orion. The Hebrew name for Orion is Kesil, which translates as "foolish one" or something to that effect. That would make the dog Canis Minor or Canis Major. The Fool on the card has the same shape as the constellation with the tight waste belt. Orion is also identifiable with Kether on the T.O.L. There is a lot of weird things about the nebula in Orion, and a lot of mythology.
 

Teheuti

Hi, I'm new here. I just skimmed through this whole thread, and with all this "Foolish" talk I haven't noticed that anyone has made the connection between the Fool and Orion. The Hebrew name for Orion is Kesil, which translates as "foolish one" or something to that effect. That would make the dog Canis Minor or Canis Major. The Fool on the card has the same shape as the constellation with the tight waste belt. Orion is also identifiable with Kether on the T.O.L. There is a lot of weird things about the nebula in Orion, and a lot of mythology.
Waite doesn't talk about the Fool as Orion and this thread [the Arcana Study Group] is about Waite's material on the RWS Fool card. If you do a search you'll find discussions of Orion and the Fool on aeclectic and in other places. Check out the William Blake Tarot of the Creative Imagination for a fascinating discussion on this topic (it's in the free pdf of the book): http://www.blaketarot.com/Tarot-Card-Download_Books.html
 

lucid_dawn

I have never heard of this but it makes perfect sense. Thanks for posting the links.
 

Teheuti

Thanks for the link. Waite may not have realised the connection. I have no doubt that the Fool is Orion, due to the impeccable research of Danny Wilten. Here is the link for his playlist and I shall leave it at that.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmdMThVSH8eZoVJBS68AyDRBOEIoZ2GYo
It would help if you referenced the specific video and minute marker where Wilten discusses Orion and the Fool card. Does he go back to the 15th century images or does he feel that it relates only to the RWS Fool? The analogy is even more compelling when the crocodile/dragon is included in the Fool card, as in several of the 19th century Tarot decks based on Paul Christian's descriptions.

The Blake reference is more brief than I remembered as Gary Ross and Ed Buryn spent quite a bit of time discussing the Orion possibility back in the 1990s.
"Blake’s image was probably inspired by the constellations of Orion (‘beautiful man’) of Greek mythology,Canis Major(containing the dog-star Sirius), and Hydra (Serpent).Blake was quite familiar with the constellations, and a glance at a star-chart shows that they line up exactly as Blake pictured their representative characters [Orion/man-dog-crocodile]. (Interestingly, the Hebrew name for Orion is Kesil, which means Fool)." - William Blake Tarot (1997)
 

Gofannon

He did have a specific video on the Fool, but it must have been deleted. I don't know if there is a short video that could provide a quick review of what you need to see. I really do recommend that you watch right through the overview series, there is so much other information there that pertains to the Tarot and Kabbalah, and it's a work in progress. The important thing is to see the image overlays of cathedral art onto the nebula, the Nile region onto the nebula, the nebula onto the human brain, etc. Perhaps the best example is the comparison of "The Creation of Adam". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HldO_qSYmuo&list=PLmdMThVSH8eZoVJBS68AyDRBOEIoZ2GYo&index=5 The images cannot lie, and the images can be checked for Photoshop modification as they are all from the public domain. His analysis of what this all means comes from comparing ancient texts from many cultures, so perhaps there could be arguments there that are wrong as words can easily be twisted. But he is very thorough, a trained analyst, and in the however many years I've followed him there have been no serious challenges to what he has presented. He has had a lot of attacks from whacked out radicalised Christians though. He dips into Blavatsky and Manly P Hall a lot. This information is a game changer, IMHO.
 

Teheuti

Video on Tarot and Orion Constellation: https://youtu.be/4k58Vdv8tGw

The Fool discussion starts just before minute 27. If the only proof is that Orion and the Dog-Star are in alignment (with the dog in front of Orion) and that the Hebrew name for Orion is Kesil, which means Fool, then it doesn't seem like proof that the Fool card was created based on the Orion constellation and on the version of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life that was used by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (from the 1890s) - as claimed.
 

Gofannon

Thanks, that was the video I was looking for. So it's a 36 minute video, and you are saying the only relevant information is from minute 27, and based on that you discard the rest??? Please explain how you came to this conclusion. I see the whole 36 minutes as being relevant.
 

Teheuti

Thanks, that was the video I was looking for. So it's a 36 minute video, and you are saying the only relevant information is from minute 27, and based on that you discard the rest??? Please explain how you came to this conclusion. I see the whole 36 minutes as being relevant.
I was referencing only your claim regarding the Fool and your points:
The Hebrew name for Orion is Kesil, which translates as "foolish one" or something to that effect. That would make the dog Canis Minor or Canis Major. The Fool on the card has the same shape as the constellation with the tight waste belt.
The only place the video references these specific points is just after minute 27. These associations are not new and are interesting. I'm not personally interested in discussing Wilten's theories as a whole, but don't let my lack of time and interest put anyone else off. I can see that Wilten goes way beyond Tarot and I'm sure all of his videos are necessary to get a good grasp of his theories. My focus on the topic of the RWS Fool, in particular, is no condemnation of Wilten.

Are you saying that Waite knew Wilten's Orion theory before Wilten did and deliberately associated it with Orion, even though Waite doesn't mention Orion in his books?
 

Gofannon

I would suggest that Waite may not have made the connection. I believe that Waite and others were merely trying to re-establish an earlier wisdom, one that has been fragmented and destroyed by the Roman Church and others. This knowledge has been kept from us, for what reason I don't know and can only add to my speculation. I think Wilten's work shows what can be hidden from plain sight, even in the temples of those that preach a different story. Wilten draws from a lot of older texts that verify the relationship of Orion to Kether if you care to watch any more of his work. You need to realise how easy we have it today with the internet, so much information to access and people to connect to. What would it have been like in Waite's day?

One way to verify that the symbolism on Waite's card is Orion would be to look at earlier versions of the Fool and compare with other symbols or art related to Orion.