Why do new artists change the suit names?

Luna-Ocean

LRichard said:
It is just a convention, nothing more. Thoughts are generally ephemeral, like air, hence were represented by the Swords, which swish through the air. However, they can also cause damage if they hit something, as can tornados and hurricanes and destructive thoughts. Thus the Swords designation seems appropriate.
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It is interesting to see how we associate different ways on the use of these elements and the use of swords were an ideal way to represent this with air and thoughts, also the conflicted aspects of the use of our words that can sometimes cause destruction to other people.
 

Barefoot Fool

karen0205 said:
I am always disappointed when I open a new deck and the artist has changed the names of the suits. It's really frustrating to try and use a new deck that the artwork is too loosely based on the RWS system already and then they put some funky names for the suits. I find it annoying and creates and aversion to buying it for me. I want to be able to pick up a deck and use it right away. I don't want to have to study the book or booklet before I can use it. Just my opinion. I wonder if these artists really read or are just interested in tarot and decided to create a deck. Which is great too but then call it an oracle.
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I changed the names of two suits in The Tarot of the Absurd because that's how they made sense to me. People can argue about "coins" vs. "pentacles" and never come to an agreement, same with "staves" vs. "wands." I chose to agree with the names cups & coins because they're things we relate to every day. I changed the other suits to be things I relate to every day that are relative dictionary and practical equivalents: sticks (for staves or wands) and blades (for swords). So that's my reasoning. I don't feel as if people need to learn anything new to use the deck, tho a new deck can help people learn new things. I feel as if they are relatively delicate changes. If people aren't comfortable with them, they probably aren't comfortable with the deck, anyhow.

I totally agree that when people totally change the names of the suits & I can't keep the reasoning for their changes straight in my own head, I don't have much of a desire to use that deck because I dislike looking stuff up when I'm reading cards.
 

Luna-Ocean

Barefoot Fool said:
I changed the names of two suits in The Tarot of the Absurd because that's how they made sense to me. People can argue about "coins" vs. "pentacles" and never come to an agreement, same with "staves" vs. "wands." I chose to agree with the names cups & coins because they're things we relate to every day. I changed the other suits to be things I relate to every day that are relative dictionary and practical equivalents: sticks (for staves or wands) and blades (for swords). So that's my reasoning. I don't feel as if people need to learn anything new to use the deck, tho a new deck can help people learn new things. I feel as if they are relatively delicate changes. If people aren't comfortable with them, they probably aren't comfortable with the deck, anyhow.

I totally agree that when people totally change the names of the suits & I can't keep the reasoning for their changes straight in my own head, I don't have much of a desire to use that deck because I dislike looking stuff up when I'm reading cards.
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I like the main overall effect of the black and white contrasts with this deck and also the use of the elements being Sticks and Blades, but like what as been discussed there is not going to be much of a stretched approach with learning these types of modernized suits, most of these creators have tried to keep very subtle changes that don't reflect much from the traditional meanings.
 

InionAradia

Personally, I'm working on a deck right now- it's not intended for anyone other than me, I wouldn't sell it- but just to represent my personal interpretations better, and for me to develop a deeper connection with the cards. In my deck, the suits are: Pentacles, Wands, Athames and Chalices- Earth, Air, Fire and Water respectively. I changed the names to suit me, personally, better, and this represents what I associate the elements with. But, Tarot decks designed for the general public do need to be more obvious- at least stick with elemental colour themes per suit so it's easier to tell, or make the names more obvious, or something.
 

AJ

InionAradia said:
. In my deck, the suits are: Pentacles, Wands, Athames and Chalices- Earth, Air, Fire and Water respectively..
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so you've kept the general idea, but switched air to wands and fire to athames?

Making your own deck will really open up tarot for you. so will coloring a deck. good job.
 

InionAradia

AJ said:
so you've kept the general idea, but switched air to wands and fire to athames?

Making your own deck will really open up tarot for you. so will coloring a deck. good job.
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Pretty much- although personally, I always considered Air=Wands and Fire=Swords, anyway. But I can see both ways, to be honest. Thanks, though!
 

imarya

seven stars said:
Originally, though, I suppose they were all hearts, clubs, spades & diamonds, weren't they?
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Nope. :)

With playing cards, it depends on where the deck continued to "evolve" after playing cards were introduced to Europe. For decks with four suits:
-hearts/clubs/spades/diamonds are French suits.
-chalices/clubs/swords/coins are Latin (Spanish & Italian) suits.
-hearts/acorns/leaves/bells are German suits.

There are others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit_(cards)

There are numerous examples of playing cards from the mid 16th century where the suits were lions, peacocks, monkeys, parrots, columbines, pinks (carnations) and roses...and the face cards were multicultural(!).

Cards didn't necessarily develop along one consistent line; they've always had different purposes and people have always come up with their own variations on those themes. Think of it as if you were cleaning out your junk drawer and came across a bunch of random cards: baseball cards, multiplication flashcards, playing cards, Bible verse cards, Pokemon cards, and cards from the Trivial Pursuit game, and then tried to make them all fit the same story line.

Speaking only for myself, if a person is going to design a deck and still call it a divinatory/esoteric tarot deck (as opposed to the contemporary French jeu de tarot decks, which are for playing tarot), I expect it to be something that easily connects to RWS. Not because RWS "invented" Tarot with a Big T--it's well established that tarot was several hundred years old when the members of the Golden Dawn became aware of it--but because RWS codifies what became the contemporary standard, wherein we have a system consisting of:
-22 major arcana
-56 minor arcana
-wands relate to the archetypal world, spirit, fire
-cups relate to the creative world, soul, water
-swords relate to the formative world, astral body, air
-pentacles relate to material world, material body, earth

I don't care if someone renames the suits as part of bringing their vision for the deck to fruition, if it's necessary and it fits. I think it's somewhat like deciding to invent a new alphabet and language before writing a book, though.

I don't expect new "tarot" decks to relate to Thoth and Etteilla. To my way of thinking, Thoth and Etteilla are their own thing, just like Lenormand decks and oracle decks are their own thing aren't marketed as "tarot" decks. If someone developed a deck which didn't conform to the contemporary 78 card tarot--extra suits, extra cards, significantly modify the associations, etc.--I'd expect that to be marketed as a new divinatory/esoteric system or an oracle deck.

I think tarot is both timeless and contemporary. If new decks with new, culturally relevant art--and with it, new card names--hadn't always been part of the mix, tarot would have become a stagnant relic of a bygone age. Instead, it's always shown the capacity to grow and change yet stay unchanged, remaining relevant to people in all eras.

I think some of the contemporary French jeu de tarot decks are cute, like the Droopy tarot.

That's just my well-considered newbie opinion, though. And we all know what they say about opinions--everybody's got one! :)

imarya
 
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