Discussion Thread for: The Making of a New AT Collab Deck

Amsonia

It occurs to me that one issue with actually selling this deck is, some creators may do digital collage using photos or artwork they found online - which may or may not be copyright-free. I noticed at least one card so far is a digital collage, though I don't know the sources for the art used.

If we end up with several digital collage cards, it could be a major headache to screen out ones that violate copyright. Imagine the headache if AT gets in trouble down the road, when original artists realize their copyrighted work was used without permission? Such cases would probably be a copyright violation whether the deck ends up printed or just online, but selling seems a lot more serious...

Something to think about.

FYI - All three photos used in my card, Ace of Wands, are mine. I am granting a "Rights Managed" use of them for this project. There will be no headaches with my card anyway...but you are right...it does need to be looked after...

You are right, it doesn't matter if you sell it or not, if you don't have the rights to use something, even posting it digitally online or giving it out for free is still copyright infringement. Each artist should be knowledgeable about what they are using...it is amazing how many people think it is OK to use someone else's original work in a collage and think they can call it their own...sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't...but each artist must do their homework if they are going to venture out into that nebulous blur of legalities. I like to keep it simple and only use my own work, but even then you aren't 100% covered. For instance, did you know that the lighting on the Eiffel tower is copyright protected? If you take a picture of the Eiffel tower during the day you can sell it, if you take one at night, you have to get copyright release from the building owner to sell or even post it to your Facebook page, the photo that YOU took of their building...it can get really complicated...Yuck, what a world we live in! Crazy! http://hoaxes.org/weblog/comments/is_the_eiffel_tower_copyrighted It also get's messy when logo's are involved...

Anyway, I'm not a lawyer...but I am a semi/pro photographer...
 

Cenozoic

It occurs to me that one issue with actually selling this deck is, some creators may do digital collage using photos or artwork they found online - which may or may not be copyright-free. I noticed at least one card so far is a digital collage, though I don't know the sources for the art used.

If we end up with several digital collage cards, it could be a major headache to screen out ones that violate copyright. Imagine the headache if AT gets in trouble down the road, when original artists realize their copyrighted work was used without permission? Such cases would probably be a copyright violation whether the deck ends up printed or just online, but selling seems a lot more serious...

Something to think about.

I agree with your take on collaged artwork. It would be a violation if someone just used a lot of random photos from the internet and meshed them together, and having it printed would be a no no, especially from a publishing company, who would outright reject it, or otherwise get sued. :(

The easiest thing to do, is just to take your own camera, go outside, and snap your own photos! That way, you hold copyright of that photo. Simple as pie. :)

And sometimes you can use something called "stock photos", in which the photographer has given people permission to use the photos under certain conditions. Be sure to read and follow them, and list the sources of where you got your stock photos from.

But if you really like an internet image, be sure to ask permission to use it. If the owner doesn't want you to use the image (maybe for privacy reasons or otherwise), then at least you know. but if the owner does allow you, they may ask that you can use it under certain conditions.

*sigh*

The easiest thing to do, is to take your own photos! The End.
 

Cenozoic

For instance, did you know that the lighting on the Eiffel tower is copyright protected? If you take a picture of the Eiffel tower during the day you can sell it, if you take one at night, you have to get copyright release from the building owner to sell or even post it to your Facebook page, the photo that YOU took of their building...it can get really complicated...Yuck, what a world we live in! Crazy!

Wow I didn't know that the Eiffel tower lighting was copyrighted. That's really interesting news.

Copyright laws differ in every country, but it surprises me that lighting can be copyrighted! Is it that certain way those lights were put on the tower that makes them so special, that they absolutely need to be copyrighted? Wow, you can take as many pictures of the tower itself during the day, but when it comes to having these special lights attached, so they can glow amazingly at night, oh no! You can't take a photo of that. The lights seem more special than the tower itself! :D

But not to derail the whole collab discussion, I would conclude that copyright laws will be different, and it'll be difficult to realize what is and isn't copyrighted, especially online where you'll have a ton of photos from across the world. But to simplify things, just make sure you made it, and then all will be good in the world.
 

Marirowana

Copyright

It occurs to me that one issue with actually selling this deck is, some creators may do digital collage using photos or artwork they found online - which may or may not be copyright-free. I noticed at least one card so far is a digital collage, though I don't know the sources for the art used.

If we end up with several digital collage cards, it could be a major headache to screen out ones that violate copyright. Imagine the headache if AT gets in trouble down the road, when original artists realize their copyrighted work was used without permission? Such cases would probably be a copyright violation whether the deck ends up printed or just online, but selling seems a lot more serious...

Something to think about.

We assume everyone reads the 'rules' posted as a sticky note in the creation forum, about the copoyright. This thread is a part of it:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=75304
 

daphne

I decided not to take a card because you guys are all amazing artists and creative folk and my heart is not really into creativity at the moment.

Daniel, this is not a contest. This is a project for good fun and collaboration. We would like to have on board as many ATs possible. At least 78 if not more, then we make two decks. :)
It does not matter you are not "an artist".
You are here. We are all artists now and I am sure you can make a card.

Just pick a card, go out with your camera and find it.
We are surrounded by tarot cards every day, every single moment. Life gives us tarot in every single breath.

Or just put two matches together and take a picture. Here you go, you have 2 of wands:
http://www.injennieskitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/matches02-620x465.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/335301286_d8ac50e7e7_m.jpg
http://image.shutterstock.com/displ...burn-in-the-fire-of-love-vector-101509378.jpg

Now lets see yours. There will be your matches, your table and your unique angle when making that picture.
You can contribute, no doubt. Anyone can. Enjoy making your card!
 

Zephyros

Such cases would probably be a copyright violation whether the deck ends up printed or just online, but selling seems a lot more serious...

Something to think about.

That's something to think about in any case (not contributing, just chiming in!).

Since the deck is made under the auspices of AT, and all posts about it are the intellectual property of AT, all copyrights and proceeds belong to AT in any case.
 

Solandia

It's wonderful to see another community deck going ahead, it's been a while!

I do have to be a naysayer about printing the deck for all the participants, unfortunately. Having organised a few community decks before, it'll cause less headaches for everyone involved if it is either:

1) Digital only, or;
2) Digital plus print quality images provided only to card creators so they can print their own personal physical copy.

Either way, the completed deck will end up on display in the Projects section of Aeclectic, and will become a new deck in the Free Readings section too.

Thanks and I am looking forward to seeing everyone's cards as they're made. :)

~ Solandia
 

Marirowana

No printing

Solandia, thanks for the clarification, this will make things a lot easier.

We will continue the process, without the option to print. We hope this will allow more people to join! :)
 

gregory

It occurs to me that one issue with actually selling this deck is, some creators may do digital collage using photos or artwork they found online - which may or may not be copyright-free. I noticed at least one card so far is a digital collage, though I don't know the sources for the art used.

If we end up with several digital collage cards, it could be a major headache to screen out ones that violate copyright. Imagine the headache if AT gets in trouble down the road, when original artists realize their copyrighted work was used without permission? Such cases would probably be a copyright violation whether the deck ends up printed or just online, but selling seems a lot more serious...

Something to think about.
My cards do use photo collage (I can't draw) but mercifully, and for anyone who sees them, they are all my own photos and I can prove it if I need to. I don't know what the "Rights Managed" thing is, but I am happy to allow one on my cards, whatever it is :D I wonder if the whole deck could have a blanket one ? Would people agree ?

You aren't even allowed to TAKE a photo of the Mona Lisa ,mind :D

Thanks for your post, Solandia - off to see what other cards are left. :)

For the record, I am delighted all this is over, and had JUST found the post I wanted to cite to show why I was so anti printing all over for the world ! I do actually want this project to happen.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=1445934&postcount=29

Sorry it took so long, but - well, that was the kind of thing that upset me and many others...
 

reall

so conclusion;

@ Alta Will the deck ever go to print form? Y/N
Sorry to say, but Solandia say no! so NO to AT5 print deck!

however that does not mean printed collab deck project wont be made somewhere in the future
but in that case from the start will BE CLEAR to be intended for print!^^;)))
AND DON’T MAKE A BIG DEAL FROM COPY RIGHT AND WHO GET THE MONEY!
(of course every artist will keep copyright for card but give permission to print deck!^^)
edit imo if printed deck ever happen it should be made like one of those kickstarter projects?^^ and not *over the back* of the ATforum, Solandia, or previous collab decks ^^ )) (if possible)so there is no reason to worry about being included in something you don't wish to participate?!^^ ))

Will anyone besides the participants be allowed to have a copy, either in electronic or print form (as decided in the question above)? Y/N
Read above, everything will be clear eventually,
Imo no one can you stop you if you opt for self printing but its newer good as manufacturer! Correct me if im wrong

@danieljuk and because of people like you, I wish that would be available to anyone who wish to have it!^^ ;)))

@ tarotbear like your idea!^^ ;)))

@onepotato people just don’t know how big job is to actually publish something!
Especially Tarot deck! You dont have a clue how much job it require back stage! Im not talking about myself but other team members who had to settle tech stuff, copyright, print company shipping and million others task required!^^

so what if they actually get some money for all time nerves and work they invested in this?
don’t you think that would be fair?^^

as long I can have a pleasure to see my art published and hold my deck with my name on it! Knowing there is more people who will appreciate it!^^ I’m fine with that!^^ ;)))))))))

@ Amsonia I didn’t know that about Eiffel tower!^^
Its important to NOTE not use other copyright art!^^ ;))

@Cenozoic you are right! Best solution to snap your own photos!^^ ;))

@daphne like the way you think!;)))))(that give me idea for new deck!^^ lolz ;))))

btw we may need *one more topic* for card back design!^^ just saying!;))) lolz