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Huck 
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The Rosenwald Tarocchi (or better: Rosenwald Minchiate) has significant Minchiate details on the other sheets:



The 4 Knights are centaurs, and two of the Fante are female ... as in Minchiate.



centaur Knight (Minchiate) - mixed forms of animals and human body at all knights


female Fante (Minchiate) at coins and cups


male Fante (Minchiate) at batons and swords

Minchiate versions for control ...
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks07/d05113/d05113.htm
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks07/d05114/d05114.htm
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks07/d05115/d05115.htm

There's some justified doubt, if indeed all three Rosenwald sheets belong together to one set (cause of minor stylistic differences). Nonetheless one can assume a coordinated production line (the size of the cards are the same and the general style is similar enough).



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Last edited by Huck; 06-04-2015 at 02:56.
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Huck 
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Further versions to control Minchiate editions are offered by British Museum
http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...Text=minchiate

One of the offered editions looks very fine, possibly a type of court deck (usually rather unknown for Minchiate). It's arranged from 3 different decks (see description)


http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...jectid=3058908
more pictures ...
http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...908#more-views

Quote:
Description:
Tarot pack: incomplete pack with 48 of 97 playing-cards for Minchiate made up from three different packs.
Hand-coloured woodcut illuminated with body colour and gold, the borders richly gilt.
Backs of 23 printed in black with the arms of Austria between Lorrraine and Medici, and the word "Etruria"; those of 14 with the arms of France and Medici, and the word "Etruria"; and 11 with the arms of Medici, and the word "Columba".
18th Century
....
Dimensions
Height: 98 millimetres
Width: 58 millimetres
....
Curator's comments
In No. 3 of the atutti the Empress holds a shield charged with the arms of France and Medici, and a similar shield appears on the ace of coins. The missing cards are the 9, 10 and queen of cups, the 10, knave, knight and king of swords, the 2-10, knight and king of coins, the ace, 5, 8, 10 and knight of clubs, and atutti Nos. II, V, IX, XII, XV-XVIII, XXI-XXV, XXVII, XXVIII, XXX-XXXVII, XL and XLI.
Usually the "Empress" isn't part of Minchiate. The Curator must mean, that the two figures in the bottom row present Empress and Emperor (however, I cannot identify a number 3).

Austria and Lorraine (husband of Maria Theresia) got the rights on Tuscany in c. 1739, after the last Medici had died in 1737. Unluckily the curator doesn't note, which of the extant cards belong to which type of backside.



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garmonbozia 
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Wow. Those cards are amazing. I wish more of the deck still existed!
.....so that someone could make a repro.....
.................and I could hold them in my hands!!
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Fantstic Thread


I learned something new here. Thank you.
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Yes, many thanks for posting all the photos and explaining everything
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MikeH 
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Abrac's question could also be taken as "When did a card called 'The High Priestess' first appear in a tarot deck?". Here by "High Priestess" would not be meant, of course, the actual English words "High Priestess", but either that or something similar in another language. This is a more difficult question.

The practice is usually dated from de Gebelin's Monde primitif, analysé et comparé avec le monde moderne, vol. 8, tom. 1, Paris 1781:Considéré dans divers objets concernant l'histoire, le blason, les monnoies, les jeux, les voyages des phéniciens autour du monde, les langues américaines, etc. ou dissertations mêlées, in particular pp. 365-410, "Du Jeu des Tarots" ("Concerning the Game of Tarots").

For a link, see http://www.tarock.info/gebelin.htm

In article I, we read:
Quote:
Grand-Prêtre & Grande-Prêtresse.

Le No. V. représente le Chef des Hiérophantes ou le Grand-Prêtre: le No. II. la Grande-Prêtresse ou sa femme: on sait que chez les Egyptiens, les Chefs du Sacerdoce étoient mariés. Si ces Cartes étoient de l'invention des Modernes, on n'y verroit point de Grande-Prêtresse, bien moins encore sous le nom de Papesse, comme les Cartiers Allemands ont nommé celle-ci ridiculement.

(High Priest & High Priestess.
No. V represents the Chief of the Hierophants or the High Priest; No. II, the High Priestess or his wife; we know that among the Egyptians, the Chiefs of the Priests were married. If the cards were an invention of the Moderns, we would not see here a High Priestess. much less the name of Popess, as the German Cardmakers have ridiculous named this.)
I am not sure where in Germany the card had the name "Papesse": perhaps German-speaking Catholic cantons of Switzerland. But in France in the 17th and 18th centuries, apparently unknown to de Gebelin (as the game had mostly died out in Paris), the card was usually called by that name, "Papesse".

It seems to me, however that the first use of a term like "High Priestess", for the card usually called the Papessa or Papesse, is in a list by the Lombard jurist and emblem-book writer Alciati, in 1544, in a book in Latin published in Lyon, France, in book IIII, p. 90, of https://books.google.com.au/books?id...page&q&f=false (Ross Caldwell gave the reference in another forum) The verse goes (with the relevant term in bold):
Quote:
Mundus habet primas, croceas dein Angelus alis:
Tum Phoebus, luna, & stellæ, cum fulmine dæmon:
Fama necem, Crux ante senem, fortuna quadrigas:
Cedit amor forti & justo: regemque sacerdos,
Flaminicam regina præit que is caupo propinat
Omnibus: extremo stultus discernitur actu.

(The world has the primate, then the golden winged angel;
Then Phoebus, the moon and the stars, the devil with the lightning;
Fame precedes death, the cross the old man, fortune the chariot;
Love yields to the strong and the just: the priest precedes the king,
The queen precedes the high priest’s wife, the innkeeper offers drinks
To all these: at the end the fool is recognizable by his behavior.)
"High priest's wife" is precisely how de Gebelin saw the card. The "Flamen" was one of the high-ranking priests, i.e. high priests, and the "Flaminicam", or "Flaminica" in the nominative case, is his wife, also in the priesthood and also of high rank. See among other sites the section on "Flaminica Dialis" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamen_Dialis

Whether this term is Alciati's invention or reflects practice somewhere is not clear. I say "somewhere" because Alciati by 1544 had spent many years in France as well as in his native Lombardy, where in 1544 he seems to have returned.

Some sources say that the work was published in 1538. However that was just the first three books. Book IIII was added in 1544.

There are several other interesting names in Alciati's verse, but to discuss them would be to go outside the boundaries of this thread. They have been discussed elsewhere.
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Teheuti 
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Mike,
Thank you for this post. I'd forgotten about the Flaminicam reference. It's interesting to see that the card has been recognized, by some, for centuries as a female priest/ess.



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Huck 
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A rather old version of Minchiate, dated to 1712-16 and to the producer Giovan Francesco di Santi Molinelli.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv...6508z/f45.item



... mostly rather similar to the version of 1725, but in details small differences

Quote:
Titre : [Jeu de Minchiate à enseignes italiennes imprimé sur soie] : [jeu de cartes, estampe] / Per Giovan Molinelli
Éditeur : Giovan Francesco di Santi Molinelli (Florence)
Date d'édition : 1712-1716
Type : image fixe
Format : 1 jeu de 97 cartes : gravure à l'eau-forte sur soie coloriée à la main ; 10,1 x 5,8 cm
Format : image/jpeg
Description : Ancien possesseur : Marteau, Georges (1858-1916)
Description : Référence bibliographique : Guibert, Georges Marteau, 14-18
Description : Référence bibliographique : Depaulis, Tarot 1984, 59
Description : Appartient à l’ensemble documentaire : JeuCart
Droits : domaine public
Identifiant : ark:/12148/btv1b10336508z
Source : Bibliothèque nationale de France, département Estampes et photographie, RESERVE BOITE FOL-KH-167 (1, 14-18)
Relation : Notice de recueil : http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb403402878
Relation : Appartient à : [Collection Georges Marteau. Recueil. Cartes à jouer]
Relation : http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb43573096s
Provenance : Bibliothèque nationale de France
Date de mise en ligne : 14/10/2013
Deck of 1725:



It need to be studied, but it seems, that the style of the 1725 deck is older than generally assumed (in the case, that the dating of the gallica deck is correct) The deck of 1725 is here:
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks07/d05115/d05115.htm

**************

I detected a deck from a production, which in style has similarities to the unusual type of Minchiate earlier studied in this thread.


Deck of Venice dated to 1753, given to ] Marcolongo, Muran[o]
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b84387120

Quote:
Titre : [Jeu de cartes à enseignes latines au portrait de Venise] : [jeu de cartes, gouache] / Giovanni Marcolongo [?]
Éditeur : [...uane] Marcolongo, Muran[o] 1753
Date d'édition : 1753
Type : image fixe
Format : 1 jeu de 52 cartes : gouache rehaussée ; 9,9 x 6,1 cm
Format : image/jpeg
Description : Ancien possesseur : Marteau, Georges (1858-1916)
Description : Référence bibliographique : Guibert, Georges Marteau, 173-176
Description : Référence bibliographique : Thomas, Casanova, 138
Droits : domaine public
Identifiant : ark:/12148/btv1b84387120
Source : Bibliothèque nationale de France, RESERVE KH-167 (5,173-176)-BOITE FOL
Relation : Notice de recueil : http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb403402878
Relation : Appartient à : [Collection Georges Marteau. Recueil. Cartes à jouer]
Relation : http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb423849200
Provenance : Bibliothèque nationale de France
Date de mise en ligne : 30/04/2011
... similar to ...


http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...d=1#more-views

The text of British Museum gives ...
Quote:
Tarot pack: incomplete pack with 48 of 97 playing-cards for Minchiate made up from three different packs. Hand-coloured woodcut illuminated with body colour and gold, the borders richly gilt. Backs of 23 printed in black with the arms of Austria between Lorrraine and Medici, and the word "Etruria"; those of 14 with the arms of France and Medici, and the word "Etruria"; and 11 with the arms of Medici, and the word "Columba". 18th Century
... for a part of the cards the information "Backs of 23 printed in black with the arms of Austria between Lorrraine and Medici". Austria got Tuscany in 1739, so a production date for these cards of c. 1753 might be possible.

**************

Gallica has a Minchiate deck (Minchiate istoriche]), which already was presented by Kaplan (as far I remember).


http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b105106281


Quote:
Titre : [Minchiate istoriche] : [jeu de cartes, estampe] ([Exemplaire complet avec dos blancs])
Éditeur : Anton Giuseppe Molinelli (Florence)
Date d'édition : 1725
Type : image fixe
Format : 1 jeu de 97 cartes : gravure à l'eau-forte ; 10,9 x 5,9 cm
Format : image/jpeg
Description : Ancien possesseur : Marteau, Georges (1858-1916)
Description : Référence bibliographique : Guibert, Georges Marteau, 21-22
Description : Référence bibliographique : Depaulis, Tarot 1984, 61
Description : Appartient à l’ensemble documentaire : JeuCart
Droits : domaine public
Identifiant : ark:/12148/btv1b105106281
Source : Bibliothèque nationale de France, département Estampes et photographie, RESERVE BOITE FOL-KH-167 (1, 21-22)
Relation : Notice de recueil : http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb403402878
Relation : Appartient à : [Collection Georges Marteau. Recueil. Cartes à jouer]
Relation : http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb43634764p
Provenance : Bibliothèque nationale de France
Date de mise en ligne : 17/11/2014



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Last edited by Huck; 15-02-2016 at 02:46.
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Old 15-02-2016 Limited time only: Chat live with a Tarot reader now and get 50% off!     Top   #18
MikeH 
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Earlier I cited Alciati in 1544 as an example of seeing the Popess card as "high priestess", usng Ross Caldwell's transltion on another forum:

Quote:
Mundus habet primas, croceas dein Angelus alis:
Tum Phoebus, luna, & stellæ, cum fulmine dæmon:
Fama necem, Crux ante senem, fortuna quadrigas:
Cedit amor forti & justo: regemque sacerdos,
[b]Flaminicam[b] regina præit que is caupo propinat
Omnibus: extremo stultus discernitur actu.

(The world has the primate, then the golden winged angel;
Then Phoebus, the moon and the stars, the devil with the lightning;
Fame precedes death, the cross the old man, fortune the chariot;
Love yields to the strong and the just: the priest precedes the king,
The queen precedes the high priest’s wife, the innkeeper offers drinks
To all these: at the end the fool is recognizable by his behavior.)
Checking "flaminicam" on Wiktionary (and Wiktionnaire) as well as "priestess" at https://en.glosbe.com/en/la/priestess I see that "flaminica" is translated as just "priestess", or "priest's wife", which the flaminica was. Also, that translation would parallel that of "sacerdos", i.e. "priest". In reading Wikipedia I see that some flamens were "majores" and others "minores". The flaminica, as the flamen's wife, would have the same status. In general, a flamen was in charge of the cult of a particular god. He had assistants. If they were priests, then he would be a "high priest" of sorts. But I do not know. However in general I think "priestess" is a better translation of "flaminicam", as opposed to "high priestess". It is at least a pagan priestess and not a Christian nun.

In 15th century Italy, ladies with three-tiered crowns were not confined to Christianity.. In the Hypnerotomachia Polifili (Polifilio's strife of love in a dream), 1499 Venice, the High Priestess in an all-women cult of Venus is shown as such:



The Latin text actually does call her "high priestess": "Pontificia Antistite,” is on p. 215 of the facsimile edition. "Antistite" by itself means "high priest". But "pontificia" is feminine, related to "pontifex", meaning a member of the highest council of priests. So it comes to "high priestess". Also, on p. 216 she is called “Ierophantia,” related to "Ierophanta", the Late Latin Greek-derived term for the priest in charge of the mysteries.

Also, Baldini in late 1470s Florence made his Libyan Sybil with a three-tiered crown:

Others of his sybils can be considered as wearing crowns with a similar association to the popal crown, if it is considered as not necesarily three-tiered, as for example the Pope is shown in the "Charles VI" tarot (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_charles6.jpg). There is the Delphian Sibyl, (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xzy10CN2XM...icBaldinil.jpg), the Phrygian Sibyl (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aDkIgQZUwn...ianBaldini.jpg), and the Tiburtine Sibyl (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-G5bKjhEwQ0...ineBaldini.jpg), all with variations on the papal crown. The sibyls were the priestesses in charge of the oracles at their particular locations. Not high priestesses, perhaps, but at least pagan, and also connected with prophecy, as the tarot often is, at least since the late 18th century.

Last edited by MikeH; 26-05-2016 at 11:13.
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