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15 card GD spread- Psychological Factors

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15 card GD spread- Psychological Factors


Hey everybody.

I have a question about that 15 card golden dawn tarot spread that's in the little book that comes with the Thoth and Golden Dawn decks....

about, that's right, the bottom left 3 card area labeled "Psychological Factors"

All I've found about it in my readings is that it indicates "psychological factors" meant to assist the querent in the course of the reading.

Anybody know what that actually means? How to actually put it to use in the spread? I've always indicated it to be the state of mind of the querent within a reading.... but is there more to it really?


Say in that section you get a nice three card spread- the empress, 9D Gain (in the middle), and 9w strength.

Is this just high hopes of the querent, or a possibility he can enact?
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I don't use the spread, so can't comment much, but hopefully this will be a little bump to get notice from someone who does use this method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManifestDestino
Say in that section you get a nice three card spread- the empress, 9D Gain (in the middle), and 9w strength.

Is this just high hopes of the querent, or a possibility he can enact?
I'd tend to read this as saying that material/financial concerns are the motivating influence for this querant's question, and that they are concerned with maintaining their position either by making changes or avoiding changes (cause of the Moon in the 9W).

Not sure if that helps though
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I thought I put this thread on watch, so I didn't notice your response until now..


From the lack of response I am asssuming practically nobody uses this spread. It's a shame, I really like it, and it seems the most practical way to use EDS in a spread, to me...

Your interpretation is interesting, Similia, as it's exactly how I interpreted it. It seems that section could also be titled "motivation".. probably by the ego.

I like your interpretation of the Moon in Sagittarius, I saw you read the planets similarly in a spread in another thread elsewhere in this forum. In this case, and it that one, it's right on...

what made you consider that influence more than the planet that is in 9D gain? Actually, what makes you associate even the principle of change with the moon and this reading as opposed to emotional ability or susceptibility? What's your process for attributing the planets/decans into ED spreads period?
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awww crap. I just wrote a long reply and accidentally hit a button on the mouse that I don't know what it does. I now know it refreshes the screen and looses all my typing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManifestDestino
From the lack of response I am asssuming practically nobody uses this spread. It's a shame, I really like it, and it seems the most practical way to use EDS in a spread, to me...
Yeah that seems to be the case. The spread was discussed a few times and each time it seems there are a very few people who have tried it, and almost none who use it regularly. I think Closrapexa was one of the few who used it. I suspect its not used in part because its fairly complex to learn the process, and also because the idea of spreads with built in tests and signs to abandon the reading are not in common usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManifestDestino
Your interpretation is interesting, Similia, as it's exactly how I interpreted it. It seems that section could also be titled "motivation".. probably by the ego.
Yeah I think that is probably a better way to put it. I thought of it rather like the base card in a Celtic Cross spread, its the thing pushing from the background, directing the querants interest in the topic of the reading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManifestDestino
what made you consider that influence more than the planet that is in 9D gain?
It wasn't a conscious decision, but dissecting it with hindsight... I guess the other two cards, the Empress and the 9D, seem to work as a pair to me. The Empress says "this is a Venus issue" and the 9D Venus in Virgo says "yes, but its in the world of disks". So in combination I felt they said it was mostly financial or material. Had it been Empress and 2 Cups (Venus is Cancer) I would have said "Oh this is an emotional issue, probably regarding the mother" or something like that. Its kind of like I saw the 9D as making the Empress's meaning more specific or confined to the world of Disks.

Because of that, the 9W stands out as different to the other cards and deserving lots of attention. The firey 9W is compatible with the earthy 9D, so its still a strong factor, it does't stand out so much that its made less by conflicting ED's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManifestDestion
Actually, what makes you associate even the principle of change with the moon and this reading as opposed to emotional ability or susceptibility?
I guess in parts its a bias from the doom and gloom financial talk and the current recession. Everyone seems very much like the guy in the RWS 9 of Wands at the moment, beaten, bruised, and bracing for more to come. The Thoth 9W I always think of as being similar, but not injured (usually) because of the flexibility the Moon brings. And because the 9W is such a clear illustration of the middle pillar, I usually think of this as quite a positive cards.

If the reading was to say to me an emotional issue, I would have expected a different card than the 9W. But only because I don't usually see the 9W as being about emotion, I see it more related to change and resiliance. Though were it to be next to a different card that is related and also about emotion, I would change that opinion for that reading. Though looking again with both minors being a 9 and hence Yesod & Moon, maybe I should have thought more about the emotional aspect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManifestDestino
What's your process for attributing the planets/decans into ED spreads period?
I've not really given it conscious thought before, but I guess that is what I'm doing. Looking at what in the cards is the same or complementary and what is different. The same as reading a chart really. Multiple Venus cards in this case, seems the same to me as saying "Venus is strongly placed" in a chart. Had it been the Empress next to Emperor I would see them as complementary and sparking off each other, like a tight aspect between Venus and Mars in a dual/relationship chart (meaning good interaction, passionate etc.), however Empress next to Tower I might see as conflicting and more negative, even though in both cases its Venus and Mars.

Perhaps I'm seeing the cards as describing the planets and energies in a very simple way (Empress = Venus) and then using the images and common interpretations of the card to modify the meaning, the same way as aspect or dignity would do in a chart?

It sounds a bit thought out, but really I just say the first thing that comes into my head when I see the cards
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it sounds like it works out more than thought it is thought out, to me. it's the next level I want to take in reading golden dawn influenced decks.

I thought the Opening of the Key spread was the Golden Dawn spread with included instructions for abandoning divination?

thanks for being the lone soldier discussing this with me in this thread.(especially retyping everything, I'm glad I don't have that mouse button.)

an interesting note I think, I'm posting /this one year to the date I joined this forum, and you seem to have joined on my birthdate. I just had to state that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManifestDestino
I thought the Opening of the Key spread was the Golden Dawn spread with included instructions for abandoning divination?
Oops sorry ManifestDestino your right. I thought we were discussing the Opening of the Key spread, which I obviously don't know either. I never even noticed there was a different spread in those LWB's. I guess the GD and Thoth decks are the kind of deck where most people jump to the companion book, rather than the LWB. So maybe it gets missed because of that.

Quote:
thanks for being the lone soldier discussing this with me in this thread.(especially retyping everything, I'm glad I don't have that mouse button.)
No problem, its good to force myself to sit down and think why you did something a certain way. I don't journal my readings much, so AT is a good reminder to me to reflect on things afterwards.

Quote:
an interesting note I think, I'm posting /this one year to the date I joined this forum, and you seem to have joined on my birthdate. I just had to state that.
Happy anniversary to us
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I'm far from an expert, but I'd like to join this party.

I'm learning to read tarot based on EDs as well, because it seems like a great way to blend the cards. The GD techniques seem unpopular around the forum, at least to me; but I personally like the attributions and "style."

I came up with pretty much the same interpretation as you both did, regarding the original 3 cards; although my reasoning was perhaps not as sophisticated.

Quote:
empress, 9D Gain (in the middle), and 9w strength as psychological factors
To me, psychological factors implies subconscious drive, and that is what I would interpret these three cards as. 9D Gain is friendly with 9W; but 9D and Empress are REALLY strong together. So 9D is strong but the balance is tilted in favor of earth. 9D Gain is based in stability, with a focus on retaining one's bounty. There is a drive to do this brought on by the fire, but it is not tempered with thought or feeling; making it an instinctual action.

So, the querent is driven to focus on the state of his material circumstances, with an eye to keeping them where they are or better.

I looked up the spread itself on the supertarot website, you can find Paul's tips here: http://supertarot.co.uk/spread/15car.htm

The first thing I thought of when I read this thread was a 10 card GD-style spread (credited to the Ciceros) that I like. It has a "water" element to it, which represents the subconscious It utilizes pairing rather than trios, which is helpful for those of us still new to EDs. You can see the spread and an example here:
http://supertarot.co.uk/spread/10car.htm
http://supertarot.co.uk/example/10cardcicero.htm

To answer the other question: the OOTK as originally written does include instructions for halting the spread, depending on the location of the significator relative to the question at hand. However, modern practitioners who've written about this do not halt the spread. (At least not that I've seen.)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rif
I'm far from an expert, but I'd like to join this party.

I'm learning to read tarot based on EDs as well, because it seems like a great way to blend the cards. The GD techniques seem unpopular around the forum, at least to me; but I personally like the attributions and "style."
Thanks for joining us rif, it was getting lonely! It would be great to see a few more threads popping up in this section, so look forward to some more from you too.

Quote:
I looked up the spread itself on the supertarot website, you can find Paul's tips here: http://supertarot.co.uk/spread/15car.htm
Thanks for those links, I was looking for this site today thinking it has something else I was reading about, and must have been on the wrong supertarot, cause it was very different!

Do you use the 15 card spread often rif? If so how do you find it? Looking at it on the link you provided, it seems a quite attractive option for reading cards in clusters.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by similia
Thanks for joining us rif, it was getting lonely! It would be great to see a few more threads popping up in this section, so look forward to some more from you too.
It's nice to be welcomed! I look forward to contributing, too.

Quote:
Thanks for those links, I was looking for this site today thinking it has something else I was reading about, and must have been on the wrong supertarot, cause it was very different!
Hehe. Synchronicity in action? Glad that was helpful. I just found those spreads the other night. Paul's website and book have been helpful learning tools for me.

Quote:
Do you use the 15 card spread often rif? If so how do you find it? Looking at it on the link you provided, it seems a quite attractive option for reading cards in clusters.
I do not use the 15 card spread. I'm working on absorbing EDs and how to read lines of cards, without a spread layout. But maybe I should try that 15 card spread, as a way to work on EDs in isolated triplets.

I like the concepts of the 10 card spread a little better, but maybe that's because elemental pairs are a little easier for me at this point than triplets.
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i've never read EDS in streams. just in spreads. perhaps that should change.


your insight into the instinctual aspect of that spread was right on, rif. also, thanks for posting that 10 card spread. i'm familiar with the supertarot site, don't go there too often though, it's quite large, convoluted, and I end up spending two hours everytime I go there clicking link after link... kind of like wikipedia. the site layout does seem to be updated now, though...
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