"high" magick vs "low" magick

kwaw

Saturday dad ---
I wait outside the bookies
with a can of pop,
at church we light a candle
for his horse
 

moderndayruth

According to one definition high magic is ceremonial type magic that deals with angels and demons, and low magic is of a more casual, folklore or witch type nature: I think this is the most popular distinction (according to which the Goetia, albeit it deals with demons, would fall under the category of 'high magic')... not an easy definition to apply in practice as folk and shamanic type magic is often itself highly scripted and ritualized, and the distinction that is often made more often appears to be between elitist, self-righteous stance of judeo-christian practicioners of 'practical kabbalah' or 'hermetic' type magic staking claim to the moral high ground over the rest...

Another definition defines high magic as 'theurgic', with knowledge and union with God(s) as it aim, or which at least places supernatural power in that of the other, the divine; as compared to 'goetic', low magic in which the practitioner seeks development of personal supernatural powers in pursuit of selfish materialist ends and the control of others.

The line between the two is often a fine and confusing one...

Kwaw!!!! :heart:
I hoped you'll pop in!
Hhaha, my folks do say that kosher Kabbalah is magic - but no divisions high/law or whatsoever... i need to remember how does my teacher refer to what Bilaam practiced (before becoming a prophet that is) and what Balak practiced and what killed him at the end ... they don't consider it the same thing (and that would definitely be a no-no ;) )
The thing is that when you study what's written in Zohar about Balak and his wicked practices - it does say that he was warned by God...
so that excludes him dealing exclusively with demons (i don't think its possible either), maybe it reffers to the means by which the goal is obtained? :confused:

Oh, and what Lon Milo writes is mostly tongue in cheek! ;)

Great verse, Kwaw




eta for typo
 

kwaw

Kwaw!!!! :heart:
I hoped you'll pop in!
Hhaha, my folks do say that kosher Kabbalah is magic - but no divisions high/law or whatsoever...

There are some variation of viewpoints among 'kosher kabbalists' on the subject of 'practical kabbalah' (where such encompasses 'magical' like practices) I believe? Some liken it to black magic and by most is at the least, not recommended - others allowing some exceptions (such as use of talismans) within prescribed limits and qualifications.

One could say I suppose/imagine that there is a division in kosher kabbalah/magic between that which is permissible and that which is forbidden ?

so that excludes him dealing exclusively with demons

but can, at least according to some kabbalists if I recall correctly (by Cordovero for example?) include demons among the maggidim (spirit messengers) that a kabbalist may communicate with? Transcriptions and descriptions of such relationships do not appear to much differ at face value to those of a John Dee, or the 'hidden masters' of theosophy, or to the initiates of the Golden Dawn... though some or all of whom might claim a difference in substance and authenticity.

Great verse, Kwaw

Thanks :)
 

moderndayruth


Oy! I have an idea of Dibbukim ("evil spirits" for the lack of better term), that i don't wish upon anyone. Lon Milo also quotes that famous saying from Talmud - if we knew what demons were around, the existence as it is would cease immediately - now that's in my words, can't be bothered to look up the original. :p
I did not ever heard that someone would want to invoke a dibbuk - basically, you want to get rid of them as soon as possible.
 

kwaw

"It has been taught: Abba Benjamin says, If the eye had the power to see them, no creature could endure the demons. Abaye says: They are more numerous than we are and they surround us like the ridge around a field. R. Huna says: Every one among us has a thousand on his left hand and ten thousand on his right hand. Raba says: The crushing of the crowd in the Kallah lectures comes from them. Fatigue in the knees comes from them. The wearing out of the clothes of the scholars is due to their rubbing against them. The bruising of the feet comes from them." Berakhot 6a

http://talmudcomics.net/berachot 6a.jpg
 

moderndayruth

"It has been taught: Abba Benjamin says, If the eye had the power to see them, no creature could endure the demons. Abaye says: They are more numerous than we are and they surround us like the ridge around a field. R. Huna says: Every one among us has a thousand on his left hand and ten thousand on his right hand. Raba says: The crushing of the crowd in the Kallah lectures comes from them. Fatigue in the knees comes from them. The wearing out of the clothes of the scholars is due to their rubbing against them. The bruising of the feet comes from them." Berakhot 6a

I am in awe of your knowledge. Thank you for this.
 

moderndayruth

Cursing with Roosters - use of low magic leaves you cleaning up crap:

http://talmudcomics.net/berachot 7a.jpg

Lol!!! :p No pun intended, but i think i am too chicken for most of it. The other thing is that i don't like to make decisions and i don't want to bear the consequences... i know that i am given what i can handle and exactly what i need...
That being said - i feel some empowerment from mere reading the texts (i mean other than the 'mainstream' ones) and also from doing couple of benign rituals, such as the lesser banishing ritual; my dreams are more lucid and that matters big time to me.
Now, i am crazy enough to do the Goetic invocation (i did much crazier things ;) ), but its truly ceremonial and no way getting around it, you do need all the tools; so its either spending months in making them or investing couple of thousand of bucks into buying ... hm.
That drive i had only for my primary path, you know, where you feel you can move mountains and are ready for anything to get there... not sure i have the same desire here.