Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum

Chart Reading: Step #1, Martha Stewart.

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Beyond Tarot > Astrology


 
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 

Dave,

Thanks for that input - so far I think we have some general agreement on issues if not detail. I'd also go for the bucket shape and agree with you that the Moon is going to be something of a focal planet in the interepretation.

I also share your views about the 'lack' of Cardinal in the chart - there is the power to see things through (to put it rather crudely), though I'm not quite sure where the initiative comes from - your 'iron hand in a velvet glove; analogy might well be a more accurate way of putting it - or it might be that she relies on others to initiate and then takes those ideas and develops and sees them through - if that were to be the case it should show up in later chart analysis.

Also like you I have recognised that the Sun near the MC is also going to be one of the focal issues in the analysis.

As you say, I don't think it matters too much in terms of specific method - we've used slightly different points systems - many practiced Astrologers are probably not going to make the point score explicit but will form an impression of the element balance weighting by planets (as Arroyo appears to do).

Do you see any compensations at this stage for the imbalances we've identified? I've looked at the house placements and for me, in this case they appear to reinforce, rather than compensate for the element imbalances - so if there is compensation it is going to come from somewhere we've yet to examine.
Top   #31
dadsnook2000's Avatar
dadsnook2000  dadsnook2000 is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 3,474
dadsnook2000 
Reply to Minderwiz


Yes, at this point we are not looking at details -- just impressions and clues as to what might be keys to finding the core dynamics within the chart. I find that the focal Moon, by not having an opposition to outwardly provide a reflection for, has to work in other ways. Now, the Moon just can't be ignored in 99% of the charts, while other planets can be "just quietly there." The Moon has to play a role or have its needs met by some other factor(s) within the chart -- we all have response mechanisms and needs to be addressed, we all have a public role, we have our emotions and moods. So, it seems to me that the Moon has to be looked at from many points of view given its lack of an opposition.

On the other hand, given the "weak" Moon, the Sun at the MC has to be strong. Although we haven't "yet looked at the Sun" it is one of the next steps and I couldn't help noticing its position after seeing the Moon and its place in the chart.

The lack of Cardinal placements, along with the strong Sun placement, provides an interesting counterpoint. I think we'll find something there to talk about later.

Again, for our list partners, the initial view of any chart in terms of shaping and balances is merely to find signposts that point the way to factors and questions that have to be examined. It saves getting lost in details until you know the type of journey and country you are traveling in.

In the case of Martha Stewart, we are getting hit with imbalances and complexities right from the start. Nothing is what it seems, there are substitutes at work here -- but once they are seen they will make the chart much more understandable than merely saying "Well, she has the Sun in Leo and the Moon in Sag so she is an international travel agent and/or entertainer." That kind of astrology is what creates a lot of confusion and mistrust -- and the shallowness of that type of "throw it out" comment is often seen on the Internet. So, I think we'll make some good progress here and help everyone to have more confidence in their practice of astrology. Dave.
Top   #32
isthmus nekoi's Avatar
isthmus nekoi  isthmus nekoi is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 14 Aug 2001
Location: toronto, canada
Posts: 2,529
isthmus nekoi 

lol, maybe it's just me, but y'all are posting too fast! Not sure how others are following, but if others are finding this speedy..... please take the pace down a notch b/c it is very daunting to come to a thread in less than 24 hours and find a new page of lengthy posts

But back to Martha. I generally see the bucket shape and although the moon isn't actually opposing Jupiter, would add that its placement in Sag would have it at least dipositing to Jupiter which might 'stand in' for the opposition to a small degree.
Top   #33
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 

Yes I agree fully with what you have said.

I was thinking a few minutes ago that one of the things that I found difficult (and to an extent still do) is not seeing the wood for the trees.

As a student (and I think this goes for all of us, certainly at one time or another) I relied heavily on 'cookbooks' to help in chart interpretation and I still admit to looking at them for inspiration! However that approach does lead to a lot of statements of the kind you sshow as examples - and whilst I think that they can be integrated and therefore modified it is not an easy process.

Practice does lead to trying to pick out the main issues in a chart and that is a better way to procede. That tends to indicate that some planets may be more important than others because of their relationships either to the shape of the chart or to the Angles or aspect patterns.
Top   #34
gloria  gloria is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 17 Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 1,451
gloria 

Minderwiz I agree with you when you say it could be M.S “ relies on others to initiate and then takes those ideas and develops and sees them through” I thought the lack of Air showed this. But please correct me if I am wrong.
I have come to the same conclusion – balance of Fixed and Mutable. I didn’t count Asc or Mc, shall do so in future. Also the contradictions of these two qualities.
Mind you, unlike you and Dave it has taken me much scribbling on paper to reach same conclusions.
I see now the different variations of the qualities/elements, something I hadn’t thought of before.
Dave, because there is no planet in opposition to Moon, would this make it weak? And if so, how?
I see the Moon being very much a focal point especially with a certain planetary config. in the chart.
Minderwiz I thought I was the only one here that couldn’t see the wood for the trees!
I am not alone then in thinking the same Isthmus, thank goodness.
Even so it really is great and enlightening stuff.
Gloria.
Top   #35
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 

Gloria,

The lack of Air is more likely to mean it's more difficult to relate to others and/or something of a distrust of 'ideas' people - such as think tanks, 'intellectuals' - in this case they may be seen as too much thinking and not enough time doing or may be seen as lacking practicality. Again I would stress this as a first impression rather than a final conclusion.

One difficulty with any approach to first impressions is to 'adopt' that initial point of view and see everything else through its lens - to place emphasis on everything that supports it and to ignore any contrary evidence. So its important that as we proceed we treat the impression as giving us our first directions but that we weigh the evidence as we go.

For me, though I'm not sure about Dave - the importance of the signs lies in the way their element and quality modifies the expression of the planet's energy. That is The Sun might express itself easier and more forcefully in Leo but be struggling a little in Aquarius. However fundamentally the Sun's energy is the same wherever it is placed by sign. Sign is important but only as a modifier not as an energy in its own right. I don't see signs as having energy in the same way planets do.

As an analogy its like driving your car down a freeway and then over a dirt mountain track. It's the same car but it can travel faster and easier on the freeway. It's possibly more likely to get where it wants to go on the freeway but either way it is likely to get there in the end.

Just an observation on the Moon placement question you ask - though I'd like Dave to still answer - It might well be argued that the bucket can focus energy on the handle through the opposition, if this were in place. Also the Moon and second house issues might have a clearer relationship and interaction with the planets in the bucket if there was an opposition. Instead the Moon has a close square to Neptune but makes no other major aspect to any planet. It does give (but not receive) aspects to some points on the chart such as the MC, however a first impression might well be that the Moon may have some difficulty in expressing its energy, though it may still achieve this to a real extent through its dispositorships or through minor aspects. That may well also lead to a discussion as to whether we should treat the quincunx as a major aspect, especially as the quincunx to Mercury is almost perfect
Top   #36
Moongold  Moongold is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 7,723
Moongold 
Stumbling around.....


Hello folks.

It is very early morning here and I have been finding this fascinating. I did have a look at my own chart, as you suggested, Dave, to us the same analytical principles as we are using for Martha Stewart.

I am interested in the impact of the chart shape on planetary relationships. Had never thought of this before. With Martha’s chart it is quite obvious in one way with the Moon as the handle of the bucket. I guess it might take the analysis of dozens; of charts to see how shapes would affect the other relationships. I’m struggling a bit to grasp this. My own chart is a splash and it is not immediately obvious. Seem a little like a churned up pond in act .

In Martha’s chart, some quite distinctive relationship patterns do involve the Moon and that clutch of planets in the 9th House. There seems to be a Yod between Moon, Mercury and Saturn for example, although Saturn is not in the 9th House. In fact all the planets in the 9th House would seem initially to indicate quite a bit of insight. Doesn’t the 9th House relate to insight and one’s personal experience of God? Well Martha has three strong planets there: Sun, Pluto and Mercury……and Chiron. I know Iam jumping a bit ahead here, Neptune and Saturn in the 7th House are interesting as well. There is a stellum in the 9th House as well. The 9th and 7th Houses sort of balance the Moon as handle.

Just in terms of my own chart and elemental analysis, I always thought I had too much Fire but I see now that almost all my Fire Planets are in water Houses (I think). Lotta steam there then.
Top   #37
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 

Moongold

Yes you are right the Moon, Mercury and Saturn do indeed form a Yod - and a true Yod because the Moon, the fastest moving of the planets is at the apex.

The Yod relies on the quincunx (or rather two - .Moon / Mercury and Moon / Saturn).

Of course much depends on whether you use the quincunx as an aspect and what 'rating' you give it. There's quite a strong view of it as a major aspect in natal astrology though it can be treated as less important in, say, horary. I think its probably best dealt with when we get to aspects - like other patterns such as grand trines of T squares because it does depend on knowing about the nature of the aspects.

The ninth is certainly often related to organised religion, personal development and expansion and traditionally its the temple of the Sun God. I'd tend to treat it as the open face of religious experience and spritituality as there's a tendency to treat private spiritual experiences as a twelfth House matter - union with the divine.

I'm not entirely convinced of or sure of this distinction so it is something to explore when we look at the houses.
Top   #38
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 

PS - If people wish to discuss the Yod at this stage then by all means lets do it - I don't want to hold up a discussion if there is a wish to deal with it now.

Edited to add - if we do discuss it now then we will also have to do a little depth analysis of how the signs relate to each other because some Yods are more difficult than others.
Top   #39
gloria  gloria is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 17 Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 1,451
gloria 

The focal point of the Yod (the Moon) in Sag shows where M.S needs to readjust or regenerate on an emotional or mental level.

Would we then look how Mercury and Saturn could help in this respect? And is there still the need to take quads/elements into account? Would these tell us if she were indeed capable of turning her life around?

I think the complexities of the quads/elements certainly are able to show the intricacies of human nature.

One last thing, please tell me how to pronounce quincunx.

Gloria.

PS Moongold I have Neptune in 11th in MS chart.
Top   #40




 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2019 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.