Associations of cards

My question is this. How do the cards seem to get re-associated from their base meanings. I.E. 2 of pentacles for my deck (being a Dragon deck), has the base meaning of; Same line of work moving to a different place. And yet it gets re-associated with how a person is feeling spread; and it now represents a type of balance.

Shouldn't the cards always stay true to their base meanings? I.E. Pentacles or Coins deal with matters of material and finance. Regardless of spread, shouldn't the suit still tie in with the base meaning aspect?

Odd question I am sure; I admit to getting confused the more I help re-interpret other spreads. Not sure if this query is in the right place.

You have 78 cards in the typical tarot deck to touch on all of human experience. If you limit the range of meaning for any particular card, you limit the situations to which they can apply. So you can't be literal with meanings.

In the example you used, "Same line of work moving to a different place" should be seen as a starting point, not the final destination of your interpretation. Pentacles deal with the physical world, foundations, money, etc. In and of themselves, they're not the "feelings" suit - Cups are.

If a Pentacles card appears in a feelings position, you can try to shoehorn that interpretation into the reading - "You feel like the same line of work moving to a different place." Not real smooth or informative, is it? Instead you need to extrapolate the card's interpretation to fit the position. "Same line of work" is basically the status quo while "moving to a different place" is shaking things up to some degree. As feelings, that sentence could be extrapolated as feelings to be, "You feel generally happy with the state of (whatever the reading is about), but you'd like to introduce some change to the situation."

Lots of theme decks still revert back to Rider Waite/Golden Dawn interpretations even if the imagery is different. Balance is one of the interpretations of the 2 Pentacles in the Rider Waite. You don't say which Dragon Tarot you have, but if it's the USG one, balance is shown in the image (even if it's not mentioned in the interpretations). You should never be afraid to base you interpretation on what you see in the card vs what's listed in a LWB or companion book.

Balance extrapolated into a feelings position would become something like "You feel the need to find equilibrium in the situation." Or it might be something like, "You feel like you don't have a firm handle on the situation as parts are constantly moving" (if you think about the juggling aspect of the RWS 2P).

Does that help clear things up or further confuse you?

Rodney

rwcarter said:

You have 78 cards in the typical tarot deck to touch on all of human experience. If you limit the range of meaning for any particular card, you limit the situations to which they can apply. So you can't be literal with meanings.

In the example you used, "Same line of work moving to a different place" should be seen as a starting point, not the final destination of your interpretation. Pentacles deal with the physical world, foundations, money, etc. In and of themselves, they're not the "feelings" suit - Cups are.

If a Pentacles card appears in a feelings position, you can try to shoehorn that interpretation into the reading - "You feel like the same line of work moving to a different place." Not real smooth or informative, is it? Instead you need to extrapolate the card's interpretation to fit the position. "Same line of work" is basically the status quo while "moving to a different place" is shaking things up to some degree. As feelings, that sentence could be extrapolated as feelings to be, "You feel generally happy with the state of (whatever the reading is about), but you'd like to introduce some change to the situation."

Lots of theme decks still revert back to Rider Waite/Golden Dawn interpretations even if the imagery is different. Balance is one of the interpretations of the 2 Pentacles in the Rider Waite. You don't say which Dragon Tarot you have, but if it's the USG one, balance is shown in the image (even if it's not mentioned in the interpretations). You should never be afraid to base you interpretation on what you see in the card vs what's listed in a LWB or companion book.

Balance extrapolated into a feelings position would become something like "You feel the need to find equilibrium in the situation." Or it might be something like, "You feel like you don't have a firm handle on the situation as parts are constantly moving" (if you think about the juggling aspect of the RWS 2P).

Does that help clear things up or further confuse you?

Rodney

Click to expand...

Thanks for that! I use the Dragon Tarot by Terry Donaldson Illustrated by Peter Procownik

I see the balance in the imagery of the card but all the books that go with this deck were of little defense against the way in which my High Priestess made me study these cards. I was made to study every image on each card and break them down. So my practice readings were interesting to say the least. then started with the forums and am actually getting a better understanding this way. I became alarmed when my teachings/studies were looking contradicted even by my own interpretations. The main reason I question something is when I see it. Your explanation is helpful. I did need to re-read it a few times to make all the personal connections. Again; thanks. This deck actually called to me before I even seen it. It was behind a bunch of other Tarot Decks emanating a golden energy/glow. I have studied it ever since! My High Priestess asked me to study the Tarot and never gave me a deck. I guess the cosmos took matters into its own hands.

If you haven't already you should check out the Intuitive Studies Group (ISG) over in the Reading Circles sub-forum of Reading Exchanges. The whole purpose of those exchanges is to practice interpreting what you see in the image, and you're actually prohibited from using any "learned" meanings for the cards you pick.

The ISG did lots in helping me to learn how to read images. So now if I laid the same cards down from different decks, I would interpret them quite differently because the images would be different.

Rodney

I agree with rwcarter and it's always why I prefer decks that don't have images except for on the majors because those cards will rarely deviate from their core meaning which is why they are consider majors as they have the most significant influence out the deck. However minors heavily depend on intuition and the circumstances of the reading.

I always refer to the RW deck meaning as a base regardless of what deck I use because that deck is the foundation of tarot and other decks is just someone's own personal touch to make it their own or modernize the meaning but the meaning never-the-less will stay the same but will vary based on the circumstances revealed in the reading.

It's not uncommon for pents to show up in the feelings position and I actually get pents for feeling quite often in my readings especially the 8 of pents which has generally meant that someone in the relationship was working hard and doing whatever they had to do to keep the relationship from ending. Or they weren't going to allow the present challenges to make them give up but instead will diligently work on getting the relationship back on solid ground.

No it's not feelings in the emotional sense like with the cups, however their actions are indeed a reflection of their feelings because they've accepted their feelings and now know action must be taken in order to salvage those cup feelings or risk the suffering with the swords.

The worse thing you can do is have a 1 dimensional mindset when doing tarot. Sure there will be cards that will pretty much be tried and true to their meanings in your experiences however the majority of the time you're going to have to analyze the situation and balance the meaning between what's actually being revealed to you.

Thanks for reminding me Marsy to mention that one way to differentiate feelings among the Minors is:

• Pentacles feelings tend to be more grounded, stable and long-lasting
• Cups feelings are more flowing and gushing
• Swords feelings are more cerebral
• Wands feelings are hotter (lust, passion, etc).

Rodney

rwcarter said:

Thanks for reminding me Marsy to mention that one way to differentiate feelings among the Minors is:

• Pentacles feelings tend to be more grounded, stable and long-lasting
• Cups feelings are more flowing and gushing
• Swords feelings are more cerebral
• Wands feelings are hotter (lust, passion, etc).

Rodney

Click to expand...

You're welcome!

rwcarter said:

If you haven't already you should check out the Intuitive Studies Group (ISG) over in the Reading Circles sub-forum of Reading Exchanges. The whole purpose of those exchanges is to practice interpreting what you see in the image, and you're actually prohibited from using any "learned" meanings for the cards you pick.

The ISG did lots in helping me to learn how to read images. So now if I laid the same cards down from different decks, I would interpret them quite differently because the images would be different.

Rodney

Click to expand...

I will! Thank You for the lead! I began to think I was set on rough path.

rwcarter said:

Thanks for reminding me Marsy to mention that one way to differentiate feelings among the Minors is:

• Pentacles feelings tend to be more grounded, stable and long-lasting
• Cups feelings are more flowing and gushing
• Swords feelings are more cerebral
• Wands feelings are hotter (lust, passion, etc).

Rodney

Click to expand...

This is highly useful!

G Dren said:

My question is this. How do the cards seem to get re-associated from their base meanings. I.E. 2 of pentacles for my deck (being a Dragon deck), has the base meaning of; Same line of work moving to a different place. And yet it gets re-associated with how a person is feeling spread; and it now represents a type of balance.

Shouldn't the cards always stay true to their base meanings? I.E. Pentacles or Coins deal with matters of material and finance. Regardless of spread, shouldn't the suit still tie in with the base meaning aspect?

Odd question I am sure; I admit to getting confused the more I help re-interpret other spreads. Not sure if this query is in the right place.

Click to expand...

I have no idea what this means to get re-associated. I just don't read that way. But then again I invented most of my reading method, which is simple enough to use. I was not into learning complicated procedures. LOL

I don't think you can apply the word "should" to Tarot. Any reader is free to read in any manner that feels right to them. If it works well it's valid for them.

Card meaning does have a certain fluidity to it, imo though. It's not static. It has a flow, meaning can change according to the many things. After all, Tarot is a system of 78 cards that can tell us ANYTHING at all. There is no limit to what the cards can say to us. In only 78 cards. So there are clearly more than 78 things the cards can say. Each card can speak volumes. And differently in different readings

That said, for me in the way I read, the cards do have set 1 or 2 work meanings for me that don't change. But these are not really THE answer from the cards, but they just pretty much point out the topic of the answer. The actual answer for me comes from the card image, which is intuitive. And the image can say vastly different things each time.

But I don't do what you mentioned above at all. If a card talked about the same line of work, or moving to a new place, then if talking about how a person is feeling inside it might be saying that they feel that the same line of thoughts they have been having has not been working for them. And that they feel that they need to move to a new place inside themselves emotionally. That they are not happy with their feelings, and feel a need to move past what they are currently feeling as it is not working for them inside.

For me the Pentacles are about the goals we set and how to best accomplish them. And 2's are about relationships between 2 people. So 2 of Pents = the goals someone has set (or both partners have set) for the relationship. So it could be, with your meanings, that they are not happy with how things feel to them in the relationship and they want to set some goals to break with the old ways of doing things that have not been working and move beyond them to a new place that feels better. But that again, for me, would just be the topic/a sort of summary. The real answer would come from the card image for me.

Babs