Tarot of Ceremonial Magic Study Group - The Magus

foolMoon

ravenest said:
That's like saying Crowley didn't want us to be like the old people in the nursing home .

I don't think that would have been his interest in his philosophy. Whether you like it or not, everyone gets old, and that is the destiny of all biological beings. It is not matter of wanting or not wanting.

We are talking about the depth of spirituality in people, not how not to get old.

foolMoon

ravenest said:
A religious Thelemite could see death as the greatest freedom. Does not Nuit herself declare it so ?

Not sure about this, but certainly Crowley must have believed in after life and reincarnation. In Book Four, it says Crowley used to believe that his previous life was Elifas Levi, who died in the year Crowley was born, the year of 1875.

Death is, I think, unknown realm, and belongs to the area of faith, i.e. you either believe that you will come back as another life, or be freed from this worldly profanity as a freely wandering spirit in the space, or it is the end, there is no such a thing. It is up to your faith.

Religious meditations are ways to find out more about the issue.

Aeon418

foolMoon said:
I really don't believe Crowley would have been interested in engaging himself with this type of discussions in Thelema.

Really? I must have been reading a different Crowley.

The subject of this thread, The Magus, is a graphic representation of someone who has conformed their conscious choices (pose) into alignment with the Will. As a result he becomes a metaphorical 'lightning rod' and his magick works. He has transmuted fate or destiny into True Will and has become an active participant in it's expression.

Of course he's 'free' to make different choices and obstruct himself if he chooses to. Most of us do this routinely out of sheer ignorance.

Aleister Crowley said:
I am not I; I am but an hollow tube to bring down Fire from Heaven.

Samweiss

smw said:
As Ravenest has noted around his head is the seal of the A.A. The outer ring has the Latin words "Fraternatatis A.A sigilum Danct. Frater ( brother) so brotherhood and sigil of the A.A. I looked up what looks like Danct and it means dance, though doesn't seem right. (Perhaps something to do with agreement).The seven pointed star within the border is the symbol of Babalon, the Great mother Goddess, also known as Isis. She relates to Binah on the Tree of life residing above the abyss. 'seven letters hath her holiest name'.

The seal according to Crowley is also 'said to be the seal upon the tombs of them that she (Babalon) has slain, that is the Masters of the Temple.'

Maybe the channeling of Babylon for the Magus is already done here. Like the Fool who appears to be an adept jumping over the abyss, this Magus could represent a Master of the Temple who has now crossed the abyss. He/she having drained their blood in the cup of Babalon or I think sacrificed their ego for the service of humanity.

I can't remember where I saw it, there was also a reference to not being able to cross the abyss with out realising the maternal feminine aspect in yourself.

I tried looking at what's with this Master of the Temple stuff. From DuQuette's Understanding Thoth Tarot: "A:A: Grade of an initiate who has crossed the Abyss and achieved the level of consciousness represented by Binah, the third sephira on the Tree of Life." I think we have to take the deck for what it is, a tool for practicing ceremonial magician. If we take a point of view of an initiate, we are not channeling down anything but our aim is to ascend the Tree of Life. So we just have to change our angle and come to this card from the bottom of the Tree and not from up, because here we see the aim of every aspiring magician, the end game, not Logos or anything like that. Or this is how I would see it. Then again, I'm not initiate of anything.

Samweiss

Aeon418 said:
The subject of this thread, The Magus, is a graphic representation of someone who has conformed their conscious choices (pose) into alignment with the Will. As a result he becomes a metaphorical 'lightning rod' and his magick works. He has transmuted fate or destiny into True Will and has become an active participant in it's expression.
.

Nice! Well said. I know I said in my previous post that magician don't channel anything, but that's not completely true. 'Lightning rod' is great way to put it.

foolMoon

Aeon418 said:
Really? I must have been reading a different Crowley.

The subject of this thread, The Magus, is a graphic representation of someone who has conformed their conscious choices (pose) into alignment with the Will. As a result he becomes a metaphorical 'lightning rod' and his magick works. He has transmuted fate or destiny into True Will and has become an active participant in it's expression.

Of course he's 'free' to make different choices and obstruct himself if he chooses to. Most of us do this routinely out of sheer ignorance.

I didn't mean on what you are reading. I was meaning the free will issues in the traditional philosophical and religious studies. Sorry about the confusion.

smw

Samweiss said:
I tried looking at what's with this Master of the Temple stuff. From DuQuette's Understanding Thoth Tarot: "A:A: Grade of an initiate who has crossed the Abyss and achieved the level of consciousness represented by Binah, the third sephira on the Tree of Life." I think we have to take the deck for what it is, a tool for practicing ceremonial magician. If we take a point of view of an initiate, we are not channeling down anything but our aim is to ascend the Tree of Life. So we just have to change our angle and come to this card from the bottom of the Tree and not from up, because here we see the aim of every aspiring magician, the end game, not Logos or anything like that. Or this is how I would see it. Then again, I'm not initiate of anything.

Hi Samweiss

Duquette in his book on the TCM suggests that it can be a tool for practising Ceremonial Magians as well as for theory exploration.

"While it is relatively easy to find someone who is knowledgeable concerning the occult arts, it is very rare indeed to meet someone who actually practises them. For the theorist, I am confident that the Tarot of Ceremonial Magick will prove fascinating and informative; but for practitioners of Ceremonial Magick, I have no doubt it will be welcomed as a useful and formidable addition to their magical arsenal."

I'm not really sure I am following the rest of your reply...though it looks an interesting idea to see this card from the angle of ascending up the tree.

smw

foolMoon said:
Every men and women is a star, but the star has potential to become a bright one or dying and dead one depending on their spritual fullfillment in life. I am using the astronomical stars in this simile rather than star in other sense. Not sure if they are be relevant, but Astronomy used to be one of my hobbies, and I can relate the Crowley's star and Astronomical stars very well.

As there are billions and billions of stars, there are different people in their sprituality. Crowley wanted us to be brighter star shining above the sky, not the dying ones or dead ones. If one is not spritual or materialist, then he is a dying or dead star forgotten and invisible.

One becomes a brighter star, when one follows the law of Thelema. Do what thou wilt shall be the law.

Again, it is just my understanding, could be wrong. But it makes sense to me at the moment.

Thanks for your thoughts FM, I am still brewing on the whole Star concept - (I did find an earlier interesting reference to us all being stars, within a discussion of Paracelsus, though perhaps better for another thread).

ravenest

foolMoon said:
Thelemic freedom is, your free decision to have the will to unite with the deity as a Thelemite, or opt out and be a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or atheist.

Crowley wants you decide on that entirely by your own free will, not by anything else.

It is nothing to do with living freely or going one's own path. Everyone is doing that already.

Thelemic freedom is having the freedom to do your True Will.

Everyone is 'going one's own path' already ? ? ? Well, a lot of them dont seem to be saying that ... a lot of people dont want to live the way they are and go to the daily grind for the man every day, and have little time for themselves, family, children, 'normal living' .

Not to mention all the refugees and oppressed people and those caught in war zones.

Sorry, I just dont see 'everyone is going their own path' ... at least not an 'own path' of their own choosing .

ravenest

foolMoon said:
I don't think that would have been his interest in his philosophy. Whether you like it or not, everyone gets old, and that is the destiny of all biological beings. It is not matter of wanting or not wanting.

We are talking about the depth of spirituality in people, not how not to get old.

Of course we all get old ... and that is my very point.

You know, Fool Moon, you are very hard to converse with.

You said, in relation to 'every man and every woman is a star' that some stars are dead old or die ... remember that ?

I responded ... well in the way I did, to try and show you another meaning, and what that phrase relates to according to a wider reading of Crowley and Thelema.

You were the one that bought up the dying and old thing with the stars. I was following your analogy and explaining why it isnt seen the way you outlined BECAUSE that would mean that birth growth life rest death etc isnt seen as part of life and part of the initiate's life and part of a star's life ... like there was some how something wrong with that.

You seem to have ignored all the other stuff I said, and picked up on the one thing you feel has the hole in it , for a dispute and dont comment on the rest ... in any case , it was a point you seemed to be making yourself about stars and your own complaint about Crowley (and mine ) metaphore used.

Not that I mind dispute ... but one needs to be able to do it from a valid standpoint .... and keep track of the to and fro of the subject matter.