Jupiter's Element - Fire or Air?

Ancient Kabbalists were often astrologers as well. The Sefer Yetzirah makes astrological attributions (and also others, like angelic attributions). The spanner in the works is that different versions of the SY make different attributions. The more common places the planets on the Tree in order of creation, starting with Malkuth (Earth-Moon-Mercury-Venus-Sun-Mars-Jupiter-Saturn). That's how Jupiter got attributed to Chesed. But in the Gra version, which is based on the ordering of the planets found in the Zohar, another system is used: Chesed is associated with the Moon, and Jupiter is given to Malkuth. So as we see, even among the Ancients, the Tree of Life-planetary correspondences follow at least two known systems. The 'order of creation' system is the more usual - especially in Western Hermeticism - but others are possible. The Golden Dawn - and Crowley - followed the more usual ordering/correspondences (i.e. not the Gra), but there are alternatives.

Marixtu Guyler and Luis Peña Longa used the Gra Tree of Life as a basis for their system in El Gran Tarot Esoterico (which also inspired the Tarot Balbi and the Crystal Tarot). In it, they place The World at Malkuth, and its astrological correspondence is Jupiter. The Wheel of Fortune is attributed to the letter Yud and to the sign of Virgo (as per the Gra:
"He made the letter Yud king over action
And He bound a crown to it
And He combined one with another
And with them He formed
Virgo in the Universe
Elul in the Year
And the left hand in the Soul
male and female".

Chesed corresponds with the Moon (astrological moon) as per the Gra, and the Sun card.


So as we see there are variants, and we shouldn't feel constricted by the Golden Dawn if another system appeals - but make sure it's a well thought out system. The attributions in the Gra Tree of Life are based on the Zohar ordering of planets, and are not arbitrary; just as the attributions between planets and sephirot on the more common versions of the Tree of Life are based on the order in which the planets are said to have been created (in the Sefer Yetzirah).


Incidentally, the angelic attribution for Jupiter being Zadkiel, that archangel is also attributed to the Wheel of Fortune (in the GD/Crowley-Harris attributions) or to The World (in the tarot system based on the Gra) - esoterically and magickally it makes a big difference.

Thank you - some more!

Oh I love this stuff, it's like Yoga! So deep! You both have impressed me that I need to continue going "slow & deep, don't rush." I have the Sepher Yetzirah on my reading list for this extended quarter (4 months, August through November), but I see Zohar must come on next extended quarter along with the Bahir.

I have started reading Fortune = Air, it's a change but works nicely. This forced me to look at associations and 7 fire cards is a bit much. Making this one air brought them all into a better distribution of 6/5/6/5 (fire/water/air/earth) if I remember correctly.

Thank you both for helping me along this journey.

really old thread I know, but hoping for an answer


what is the element of the "fortune" card ?
I have seen both fire and air. (also water!)
is air the element GD use?
is air the more "correct" element if you use the kabbalah?

I'm not really an expert on Tarot but as far as I understand it the GD associated the Wheel of Fortune with Jupiter, i.e. a planet, not an element.

From an Astrological point of view, it's impossible to attribute a planet to an element, apart from the Sun, which is only associated with the Fire Triplicity. Even the Moon was given rulership in both the Earth and the Water Triplicity. Even that does not give a clear cut answer because the Sun was given a different element depending on the season of the year in the calculation of temeperament.

I think it makes more sense if you keep to Jupiter, and ignore the elements, for the Wheel of Fortune, unless the particular deck designer has indicated otherwise, and even then you are not compelled to follow their view.

Jupiter is the ruler of Sagittarius in astrology which is a fire sign. So, Jupiter is a fire planet.

Reading the title, I intended to give the 1600's Moist/Air Jupiter interpretation, but saw that Minderwiz cited it. Yet,

Minderwiz said:

However by the time of Garcaeus in his 1574 book Astrologiae Methodus makes a new distinction. Jupiter is Hot and Wet when oriental (from the conjunction with the Sun to it's opposition) but thereafter was simply wet

Click to expand...

--while I'm informed to know where and when the Moist/Air option originated, it reminds me of a questionable passage:

Gadbury said:

A Planet is ſaid to be Oriental, when he riſes before the ☉; ſo ♄, ♃, ♂, and ☽, are Oriental of him, from the time of their ☍ with him; until the time of their next ☌; Venus and Mercury are Oriental, when they are in fewer Degrees of the Sign the ☉ is in, then the ☉ himself.
A Planet is ſaid to be Occidental, when he ſets after the ☉ in the evening, or is ſeen above the Horizon when the ☉ is down: ſo ♄, ♃, ♂, ☽, from the time of their ☌ to their ☍, are Oriental of him; and ♀, ☿, when they ſet after him in the evening.

Click to expand...

Especially since oriental is mentioned in the occidental paragraph, I wonder if there is a typesetting error in here, but I'm guessing the problem is that oriental and occidental are being explained in terms of conjunction and opposition, which is different for Moon than it is for the superior planets, yet they were lumped all together in this passage.
Also, I have seen the term oriental used to mean the eastern side of a figure by Ramsey and Partridge, which may be related to some confusion over this definition. I've scratched my head many times when oriental or occidental pop up, be it a classical or modern discussion.

On topic, I have been giving this tarot+astrology concept some thought since I added tarot to my interests and nothing I have seen yet feels right to me so I am "sleeping on it". That said, were I to describe 10-Wheel with a planet, I would choose Moon. Fate is personified as a fickle dame with good reason. Jupiter seems like the most wishful of thinking.

Brilliance said:

Jupiter is the ruler of Sagittarius in astrology which is a fire sign. So, Jupiter is a fire planet.

Click to expand...

Um no. A planet is not equal to a sign. You can't assign element of a sign automatically to a planet, first. Second, traditionally Jupiter also rules Pisces which obviously is not a fire sign but a water one.

Jupiter - Fire

Ronia said:

Um no. A planet is not equal to a sign. You can't assign element of a sign automatically to a planet, first. Second, traditionally Jupiter also rules Pisces which obviously is not a fire sign but a water one.

Click to expand...

I am aware that zodiac signs do not equal to planets. However, I believe Jupiter is definitely a planet with fire energy - and not just because it rules a fire sign (Sagittarius). Yes, Jupiter rules Pisces in traditional astrology. But in modern astrology Pisces is ruled by Neptune.

Brilliance said:

I am aware that zodiac signs do not equal to planets. However, I believe Jupiter is definitely a planet with fire energy - and not just because it rules a fire sign (Sagittarius). Yes, Jupiter rules Pisces in traditional astrology. But in modern astrology Pisces is ruled by Neptune.

Click to expand...

I'm afraid I have no reason to believe that Jupiter is a fire planet if I disregard the Saggitarius rulership which you used as a foundation for your statement. If you could provide us all, with your reasons, that would be interesting. And traditional astrology was not cancelled at any point. While I use the outers and firmly believe they have a role to play in a chart, to base your statement on a rulership which is very recent and again, your arguments rest on the sign not on the nature of Neptune itself, does not provide us with any further evidence that indeed, Jupiter is fire and Neptune - water based on only the signs they rule.

In the school and study and practice of astrology AFAIAW planets are NOT given elemental qualities, signs are

Astrology is a whole different ballgame and different system entirely to tarot and attempting to amalgamate them is nothing short of a resultant migraine and pointless...one can try though I suppose...there may be similarities in predicaments and descriptions of people and situations but they are generic to the human species not to the systems per se being connected in any direct way just my two cents