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Is that caridwen's question or mine?

Another thought about balance: Justice can also be about a balanced approach, not being swayed by the yin or the yang?
Top   #21
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I'm enjoying the discussion as well.

I wasn't sure about caridwen's question, but we posted at the same time so...

ric
Top   #22
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one of my Justice Experiences


While reading through these posts, I was reminded of a reading I did for someone else, that I was really moved by. To do a recap of the card now would just shred what that card said in that moment.
So the spread was this, and I did it in two parts 'brief' & 'picked apart':
Only shows Justice & I hope it does not take away from it without the other cards.

Fire- 6 of Chalices
Earth- Queen of Wands
Air- Queen of Chalices
Water- VIII Strength
Spirit- XI Justice

brief: The spirit position is about faith and is karmic in nature. It represents the Universal forces that work around us everyday. Justice in the Fey deck is not about law, but is about life and what is. In life there needs to be balance.
It is about having things right within the Universe and life.


Spirit/ XI Justice This is an interesting throw for these two cards to fall next to each other with these positions. In some tarot decks, Justice is ‘VIII’ and Strength is ‘XI’. I find these two cards here to be very powerful within this reading. Justice in the Fey deck is not about laws of the land. That is a man-made thing. Justice to the fey represents what is. The truth and just how things are and how they are meant to be. In this card we see a naked fey babe. Her eyes appear to be blind, but this is quite the opposite. She is one of the fey that I call ‘white eyes’ the fey from the first card, the 6 of Chalices also has white eyes. These fey have the ability to see all, see what is unseen to others. As the fey from the 6 represents the soul of a child, while it is in soul form only- it sees and knows all. The Fey in Justice has her hands with palms up and a feather floats above her cup-ed hands. Like the Queen of Cups, the image is similar- representing letting go, accepting that all things happen for a reason and have a purpose. Knowing this is the backbone of one’s strength needed to see them through.
Top   #23
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Quote:
So Justice is subjective and subject to change according to individual circumstances. How does that apply on a day to day level?

I mean within the world of Fey. Do the Fey come to Justice or is this Fey (Justice) the creator of Justice on a fundamental level like Ma'at was to the Egyptians? How does this idea of Justice function when you say it's based on the individual? Who is responsible for meting out justice to the Fey? Is this child - Justice omniscient and ever present? Or do the Fey have courts? Are there Fey priests or rulers of Justice?
Top   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvenstar
I hope you don't mind if I jump right in here
Perhaps its not about subjectiveness, but individuality. To return to what riccardo was saying, to focus on the specific moment, and specific person or situation. The innocence, the eternally fresh perspective, would then fit in and it would actually make it more objective, not influenced by past knowledge or experience and therefore subjective.
Maybe the key word is 'seem'? Could it not be that we are not always able to fathom the workings of this vast universe? There is some karma to be paid/rewarded but we don't know what it is?
But how does this work on a day to day basis?

BTW you quoted me not Ricardo
Top   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvenstar
Maybe the key word is 'seem'? Could it not be that we are not always able to fathom the workings of this vast universe? There is some karma to be paid/rewarded but we don't know what it is?
That's all very well and good but it is fact that this does not happen. If say my friend was murdered and they never found the killer where is the Justice? We may say this person will get their just rewards in hell but what if there is no hell? And if they do not get their just deserts in the here and now, through the legal system what then?

Is Justice an eye for an eye? Should we cut off the hands of thieves or stone adulters? Without Justice we have nothing, as Ricardo says no Hope but without a kind of Justice freely available to all, rich or poor we dont' have any Hope either.
Top   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caridwen
But how does this work on a day to day basis?

BTW you quoted me not Ricardo
Ooops, sorry about that! You mean how being objective in every situation works in our world? Or how the whole justice thing works in the Fey world? I wish I knew The way I imagine it works is that Justice is more like Ma'at, but with a catch, because the Fey are not restricted in a physical world they way we are, so they can visit her if they need to. And she can visit them. But I'm curious what others have to say about this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by caridwen
That's all very well and good but it is fact that this does not happen. If say my friend was murdered and they never found the killer where is the Justice? We may say this person will get their just rewards in hell but what if there is no hell? And if they do not get their just deserts in the here and now, through the legal system what then?

Is Justice an eye for an eye? Should we cut off the hands of thieves or stone adulters? Without Justice we have nothing, as Ricardo says no Hope but without a kind of Justice freely available to all, rich or poor we dont' have any Hope either.
I guess this is where the distinction between human and divine justice comes in. Here is also where personal beliefs come in as well I believe in justice and that you will get your dues here and now. Perhaps A will wrong B and B will never get back to A for it, but somehow A will pay the price. B will never know. But justice will be served. I'm not saying we should abandon human justice because all will be taken care of anyway, and I don't pretend to have all the answers. I'm just saying that I sometimes accept what I cannot change and believe that balance will be regained with some means unknown to me.

Perhaps you don't share my beliefs, this is fine, but I have actually seen it to work this way many times, in small and big things. You find a wallet and hand it in. The next week you find £40 on the street. You see a little old lady struggling to cross the street and you ignore her. The next day your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, your phone is out of range and none of the cars passing by stop to help. The first example is a real one, the second made up, but they illustrate the point. Hope and Justice to me are things I have to actively maintain, both with my beliefs and my actions. Thank you for this wonderful discussion, the more I think about the Fey Justice the more I like it
Top   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvenstar
Ooops, sorry about that! You mean how being objective in every situation works in our world? Or how the whole justice thing works in the Fey world? I wish I knew The way I imagine it works is that Justice is more like Ma'at, but with a catch, because the Fey are not restricted in a physical world they way we are, so they can visit her if they need to. And she can visit them. But I'm curious what others have to say about this!

I guess this is where the distinction between human and divine justice comes in. Here is also where personal beliefs come in as well I believe in justice and that you will get your dues here and now. Perhaps A will wrong B and B will never get back to A for it, but somehow A will pay the price. B will never know. But justice will be served. I'm not saying we should abandon human justice because all will be taken care of anyway, and I don't pretend to have all the answers. I'm just saying that I sometimes accept what I cannot change and believe that balance will be regained with some means unknown to me.

Perhaps you don't share my beliefs, this is fine, but I have actually seen it to work this way many times, in small and big things. You find a wallet and hand it in. The next week you find £40 on the street. You see a little old lady struggling to cross the street and you ignore her. The next day your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, your phone is out of range and none of the cars passing by stop to help. The first example is a real one, the second made up, but they illustrate the point. Hope and Justice to me are things I have to actively maintain, both with my beliefs and my actions. Thank you for this wonderful discussion, the more I think about the Fey Justice the more I like it
This discussion may get somewhat tricky if we are going to go by beliefs which cannot be proven but are mainly based on faith.

What I was trying to say and I see you understand me is: I don't believe in divine justice or some kind of 'karma' where someone will, somehow get what is owing to them whether for good or ill. This just seems so random and unfair. If someone attempts to harm me in any way I want to see them put away or punished, I would not say oh well, something bad will happen to them in one way or another. I am not so lackadaisical about this. I have lived in corrupt societies where there is no recourse to law for the poor and the rich literally get away with murder as they bribe judges. These people do not get punished and live outside the law or the law the rest of us are supposed abide by.

Quote:
Or how the whole justice thing works in the Fey world?
I wanted to know this, yes. I wanted to know the power of this Fey as they have a third eye. Whether they saw everything that went on and balanced the books accordingly or whether the Fey went to them on a need to know basis or how it worked. What is the basis of fairness and justice in the Fey world.
Top   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caridwen
This discussion may get somewhat tricky if we are going to go by beliefs which cannot be proven but are mainly based on faith.
I agree. But if we are going to talk about the concept of justice, beyond police and judges, it is somewhat unavoidable!

Quote:
What I was trying to say and I see you understand me is: I don't believe in divine justice or some kind of 'karma' where someone will, somehow get what is owing to them whether for good or ill.
Fair enough
Quote:
This just seems so random and unfair. If someone attempts to harm me in any way I want to see them put away or punished, I would not say oh well, something bad will happen to them in one way or another.
Yes, this is part of what I meant by maintaining justice by our actions. I'm not advocating we should e.g. leave it to the Fey Justice to weigh their feather if we can do something about it ourselves. But I do believe that the feather is examined any way, both mine and the 'villain's'. And if I believe that what the villain did is wrong, have the chance to do something about it and don't, then that makes me a villain too
Quote:
I am not so lackadaisical about this. I have lived in corrupt societies where there is no recourse to law for the poor and the rich literally get away with murder as they bribe judges. These people do not get punished and live outside the law or the law the rest of us are supposed abide by.
Every society is corrupt. Granted, some more obviously and perhaps to a greater degree than others. I actually grew up in a society which would seem more corrupt than the uk, where I now live. You probably wouldn't get away with murder that easily, but there's a lot of other things that you could get away with! I'm not saying this is a good thing or something that's not important. I just think that something exists above and beyond human justice, and to me that is one of the aspects reflected in the Fey Justice.

Quote:
I wanted to know this, yes. I wanted to know the power of this Fey as they have a third eye. Whether they saw everything that went on and balanced the books accordingly or whether the Fey went to them on a need to know basis or how it worked. What is the basis of fairness and justice in the Fey world.
I have to confess I haven't read the fey book yet and all my impressions are, well, my own. So I would say yes to both of the above and I'd see balance as the basis of fairness and justice in the Fey world. How do you see it working?
Top   #29
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What purpose does the Fey Tarot serve?


We have to keep in mind one question, "What purpose does the Fey Tarot serve?" While I can't answer for the creators of this deck, I believe that the Tarot in general, and most likely the Fey also, is intended to serve us and our clients. While the Fey may live at the border of physical reality and a spirit world, they would have to serve as a model of principle, action and thought that could work well in the physical world. Otherwise, there is no purpose for it.

That said, I don't think the karma concept is applicable. The tarot reader will not want to tell a client that a wrong will be made right in another life. Most people will not relate to that nor accept it. So, what might the Fey Justice card tell a client that will be useful?

First, lets look at what this child-Fey represents in terms of of the concept of "Justice."
** This Fey is young -- Justice has a way of seeing issues simply without foolish complications.
** This Fey has adornments given or placed upon her by others -- Justice would not have these, they would be applied by others even though not needed, and they would remain irrelevant to Justice.
** The floating feather probably represents a purity of heart. A lack of outside or acquired contamination.
** The drawn third eye has been applied by others in recognition of Justice being able to see all things, all sides of an issue, not just the "facts" presented.
** The background of shadows and chaotic windows probably represents the many background issues that Justice has to be able to perceive and filter out of the questions at hand.
** The outward, upward palms might be a symbol of prayer or meditation or focus -- apparently this Fey is contemplating an issue, making a judgment, considering a course of action.

Now, I would say, we can say what this Justice card would say to a client -- ignoring the influence of this card being in a certain position (meaning) within a spread. There will be clarity about what your issue/question is about, a full disclosure and understanding will be developed. Based on that, a course of action and decision will be made. (This card, IMHO, will not say what the decision or the course of action or retribution will be)

This is my take on the Fey Justice card. Dave
Top   #30




 


 


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