Bruegel Tarot - Nine of Chalices

contrascarpe

Well since I have been frightenly busy, I took the lazy way out and have cut and pasted my synopsis of the Nine of Chalices, which I had written as an example in the other thread, along with some of my impressions:

"Like all chalices in the deck, it is a winter scene. In the foreground to the right appears to be an older couple, each brandishing two chalices and smiling at each other. To their left is an angel who is smiling dreamily to her right, maybe looking off-card, maybe looking athe the golden pot at the base of her feet. She is dressed in a blue robe with a blue wreath upon her head, and wearing a bright sun ornament on her chest. She seems to be pointing to the scene behind her, or perhaps at the couple mentioned above. Behind her slightly to her left are three people, two are people of undetermined wealth and one is Jesus. They each hold a chalice except for Jesus who holds two. Directly behind the angel stands a man in the cold river, holding a fan and apparently shouting at the sky. Further behind him are two more people with their backs to us, both dressed in blue and wearing tan, wide-brimmed hats. They are both also holding objects skyward - the one on the left is holding a hat identical to the one she/he is wearing, the other is holding a stick with a green snake intertwined. They are both walking on a snow-covered path. Finally, amongst the low level mountains in the back sits a castle on a rocky ridge."

OK, we all know that the Nine of Chalices is the "wish card". There is nothing not to like in this rendition, and perhaps it too is grounded in the notion that all wishes will be granted. However, there is much more going on than that.

It is winter, a time to hibernate and rest and recharge for the upcoming Spring when we can begin to plant and anticipate the growth of a new year. However, nobody seems to want to hibernate! There is a party going on here - and even Jesus came!

The Angel is there to remind us that not everything is in our power to control, but fate does not bring with it just bad tidings, but good as well. The older couple seem content and happy with each other. They toast many years of happiness and being together. A typical 9/Cups usually means to me that the wish granted is often temporary (compared to the more stable power of the 10/Cups), but in this card the couple indicates that happiness is lasting.

OK, what is Jesus doing here? Maybe a reminder that one's religious faith does not have to be somber and restricting. This ties in well with the history provided in the LWB of how the art of this time was a reaction to the growth of Protestantism in Europe and evolving of art to show less serious religious themes.

Now, what is that man doing in the water? Doesn't he know its cold (he can't be a member of the the Polar Bear Club - he is fully clothed, not in a bathing suit). And why is he holding a fan? Does the water indicate the accepted meaning of subconscious thought? If so, both feet are firmly planted in the water. Maybe it is a warning that not aspects of one wishes will be granted.

Finally, the two identically dressed people in the back seem to be walking away from us. Can anyone into symbolism (or is it symbology) shed some light on the snake curled around the stick? It shows up in other cards as well.

The Bruegel Tarot leaves me with as many questions as it does answers. Anyone have any ideas on how to interpret this card?

Here is the proverb taken from the LWB - Triumph of good. The sun shines in spite of evil. Hmm, does that little snake represent evil? Do the two figures with no face walking away indicate evil defeated?

See, more questions than answers. Looking forward to the views of others :)

Dan
 

gloria

Medical professions still use the snake-entwined staff of Asclepius, the Greek and Roman god of healing.
Could the waters in this card be connected with healing...similar to that of Lourdes?
The two people Jesus speaks to appear to be dressed differently in my mind. There's no mistaking the ermine lined coat worn by guy on the right..guy on left not so richly dressed. And what does that hump in his back convey?
Sorry Dan but the angel on my card seems to be wearing a greenish colour laurel wreath. Usually symbolises victory, but have you noticed the palm of her hand, different colour to other hand.
Another thing I noticed..the humped back guy's cup has gold pattern around bottom edge.
And what is that object attached to the man in the river's thumb?
I see Jesus is taking water with his wine!!!
As to what it all means?......well haven't got that far yet. :)
 

contrascarpe

gloria said:
Sorry Dan but the angel on my card seems to be wearing a greenish colour laurel wreath.

My fiancee keeps telling me I am color blind, hehe.
 

contrascarpe

gloria said:

I see Jesus is taking water with his wine!!!
As to what it all means?......well haven't got that far yet. :)

Darn, I was hoping one was gin, the other vermouth. That blows my theory that martinis are endorsed by God.

Thanks for your insight Gloria. The cards in this deck are open to so many interpretations. This is going to be a fun deck for this group to analyze.

Dan
 

gloria

Thank goodness for that..was beginning to think it was me!! :)
 

Daphne d'Angelo

Hi! I'm new...

This is my first post. I just got my first deck, and even though I probably should have started with the Rider-Waite, the Bruegel Deck called to me, instead. I've had it for about a month, now. And so, I'm really glad to find you guys, I'm itching for a Bruegel study group. :)

I hadn't had time to look at the Nine of Cups very closely, but because of this topic, I did so this morning. Typically, the card means, "your wish will be granted" and more subtlely, "be careful what you wish for". Right? (Please anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'll learn more that way, and do so quicker.)

The proverb, Triumph of Good - the sun shines in spite of evil, is interesting, and I tried to keep this in mind along with the wishes meaning. So, that said, if I just thought about meaning of the card, without delving into the symbology and iconography, I think about our desires, our wishes, and, if our intentions are pure and come from a loving place, we might get what we wish for. Maybe that isn't good for us. Hence, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. The sun shines in spite of evil, I took to mean along the lines of no matter what you're going through, there is a reason for it, look for the silver lining, try to figure out what lessons you need to learn. So, maybe you got what you wanted, but was it really good for you? Also, the snowy, barren landscape is typically a time of lean. When there isn't a lot of bounty before the lushness of spring starts. So, maybe the proverb simply means that there are good times to be had, even in the midst of hard times.

If I look at the card, it seems to be more about choices. I see the angel looking one way and pointing another. She looks to the right, symbolizing the positive, yet points to the left, symbolizing the negative. The sun on her breast means enlightenment, to me. And angels remind me of the Divine, so like the wreath on her head, which I took to mean victory, she seems to be saying think carefully about your choices, and you will receive happiness. Maybe that's why she's pointing to the loving couple, who have abundance, seated on the right side of the card.

The Christ also seems to be offering a choice. As if he's saying, "Which one do you want?" He doesn't have any real emotion on his face, as if he doesn't have a vested interest in your choice. He is just offering. But, he is offering one cup to a man of means, and the other to someone who is of a lower status, socially and monetarily. I took this to mean your choices can ultimately lead you to the road to riches, or not. Or it's more about lifestyle choices, the rich man doesn't look necessarily very happy. That money can't buy happiness. So, again, be careful what you wish for.

I've read that the Christ also symbolizes spirit, or higher self. Interesting that his face is so passive. Maybe reiterating the fact that we have free will.

The man in the river isn't drowning, he isn't in trouble. He's very solidly standing in the cold water. He doesn't seem to mind it, he's reaching for the heavens, or towards the sun. He seems to be imploring for guidance. He is holding up a fan.

The two men walking away in the background are holding up a hat, and a stick with a snake wrapped around it. The stick, I agree, is a symbol of Asklepios, greek god of medicine.

The hat, the fan, and the caduceus are in close proximity to each other, so maybe they mean mind, body, and spirit, but I'll need to research and think about this some more.

I get the feeling that the two men in the background have made their choices, and have decided which side of the path to follow, which road to take. But, they sure aren't headed off to that "castle in the sky" are they?

Okay, I think that's long enough. I'll do some more research, and post more insights if I have any.

Wow. This is the first time I've ever interpreted a card in front of anybody. That was fun. How'd I do?

:)
 

contrascarpe

Wow!

First of all, welcome to AT Daphne. Quite an impressive first post. How did you do? Well, it certainly put any interpretation I have done on these boards to shame!

There was some great insight in your interpretation. The beauty of Tarot, and especially in this deck, is that there are many ways to interpret the cards. You are brave to begin with this deck over a standard Rider-Waite, but I also believe that in doing so you have accelerated your learning curve.

Hope you stick around the forums for a long, long time. We all have something to learn from each other.

Dan
 

gloria

I agree with Dan there Daphne...that was great stuff indeed!!!
And welcome to Aeclectic....look forward to more of your posts. :)
 

Daphne d'Angelo

Thanks, guys!

I'm looking forward to hearing other insights, as well. I'm really glad and excited to meet you!
 

spoonbender

Thanks Dan, Gloria and Daphne for your wonderful insights. I don't have a lot to add - sorry I'm a little late...

First thing I noticed on this card is the bright sun! I had a quick look at the other Cup-cards, and it seems that it only appears on this card. So even though it’s winter, the people can feel the bright, warm, living energy of the world. It truly is a divine moment: an Angel appears and even Jesus is there!

It kind of looks like the Angel has brought some visitors that we can’t see; it looks like she is showing them the scene. I think this could show that being happy can attract all kinds of luck and has the power to make others feel happy as well.

But why isn’t anyone taking that large, golden cup? Maybe it’s because they are enjoying the simpler pleasures of life... I think that's exactly what the fact that no one's looking at the castle shows.

Those two people in the right corner of the card are definitely enjoying themselves, and what’s even more important is that they appear to be sharing. I don’t think they both look older, though; the man in white and red looks pretty old, but the other person looks much younger. I think this is one of those moments that transcends generations, that everyone can feel and enjoy.

I think it’s great that even Jesus has come! The people he’s bringing drinks too look rather poor, but nonetheless are enjoying and taking part. (Daphne, I think it's interesting that it looks to you like the one man looks rich, that would tie in well with the contrast shown by that other couple: young – old, rich – poor, all coming together.) It’s here, on this part of the card that I can feel the proverb from the LWB the most: ‘the sun shines in spite of evil: there will always be good things’.

It looks like that guy in the river is waving up at the sun. It looks like the ice on which he stood has melted and broken, leaving him in the river – but he doesn’t mind! He looks happy – probably can’t wait for spring to arrive now that the sun has appeared; he’s even already got a fan out! (By the way, Gloria, I think that’s a tree, not something attached to his thumb!)

The people in the back of the card stump me a little – it looks to me like they are offering the hat and caduceus to someone we can’t see... I actually had to think of Hermes when I saw their attributes, because he was often depicted wearing a traveller’s hat and a caduceus. I found this on a site, maybe it's helpful:
The winged helmet (the traveller's hat, the petasus, usually but not always with the addition of wings) reflects the sacred nature of birds, which were often used in divination, and reflected the soul and the transcendence of the spiritual nature. The bird is also a symbol of release and freedom.
In his job as messenger, Hermes wears a broad-rimmed traveller's hat called a petasos or petasus, and carries a caduceus or herald's staff around which serpents may be found.
It’s strange, though, that there’s only one snake on the staff... Aren’t there usually two snakes on a caduceus? I noticed that the small figure on the Temperance card carries the same staff.

I hope this made some sense to you guys, let me know what you think!

Thanks,
Spoonbender