Minor Arcana Correspondences

Thank you Kwaw

I think you have beautifuly made my argument. (aimed at others, not you)

Studying the history and trying to dework out the thoughts of the Tarot creators is certainly valuable,
but ultimately, in the pursuit of ONE answer, we are all, must be, "crackpots" ( the term used on another Tarot forum site), creating new systems that try to justify, unite and explain the old, while jogging it all slightly into a new system to give consistency, with as little disturbance and rework as possible.

Kwaw,

your images are difficult to see clearly.
Would it be fair to say that a part of your system that,
in some sense,
fire and air (maybe wands and swords) Descend,
where-as Earth and Water Ascend?

beanu said:

Kwaw,

your images are difficult to see clearly.

Click to expand...

The cells in order left to right contain the
SWORDS

CUPS

BATONS

DENIERS


As drawn to illustrate C. De Gebelin’s essay on tarot in volume VIII of Le Monde Primitif 1781 (by Mademoiselle Limote according to Jean-Marie Lhôte in Court de Gébelin 1983).

Thanks Kwaw,

Yes, I see that the Wands and Swords descend from 10 to 1
Whereas the cups and pentacles descend from 1 to 10

This is particularly interesting because the RWS images appear to be "nasty" for wands and swords high numbers, but "good" for pentacles and cups high numbers.

So, for each suit, the interpretations seem to improve as they descend through your diagram. I don;t know what the implication is, but it has always bothered me.
Other interpretations (such as assigning the pip numbers to the kabala spheres, have always seemed inadequate because they do not explain this fundamental difference between suits, whereas your system offirs a clue as to why it might be.

beanu said:

I think you have beautifuly made my argument. (aimed at others, not you)

Studying the history and trying to dework out the thoughts of the Tarot creators is certainly valuable,
but ultimately, in the pursuit of ONE answer, we are all, must be, "crackpots" ( the term used on another Tarot forum site), creating new systems that try to justify, unite and explain the old, while jogging it all slightly into a new system to give consistency, with as little disturbance and rework as possible.

Click to expand...

If there is an argument to made, the most relevant as far as I can see, is that such models, schemes, whatever, no matter how elegant or in keeping with period knowledge, have next to zilch value as somehow demonstrating historical truths; they are not in themselves crackpot, but persistence in holding them up as some sort of historical proof may well be.

ultra-violet catastrophe?

kwaw said:

If there is an argument to made, the most relevant as far as I can see, is that such models, schemes, whatever, no matter how elegant or in keeping with period knowledge, have next to zilch value as somehow demonstrating historical truths; they are not in themselves crackpot, but persistence in holding them up as some sort of historical proof may well be.

Click to expand...

Depends upon what kind of 'proofs' One is after...


...and when.

Indeed.
I would be happy to take my theories elsewhere, except for two problems -

1) I need input from classically educated people to fuel the refinement of my work. (being a techo nerd myself)
2) The only alternatives seem to be too far down-market to be of much use.

If anyone can recommend a discussion forum that features relatively high levels of scholarship, but without holding the historical research process as the holy grail, then please let me know.