Tarocchi Delle Stelle English Instruction Booklet

Lord Adonia

Eilan said:
well, I won't do it in a week, let's say two pages per day. It will take 90 days but it's still better than nothing :D If you don't find a quicker way to do it I'm still offering my help.

archaic Italian dialect? we have many dialects but none is archaic, that would mean Latin! can you copy a few lines here to see what is this archaic dialect?

thanks
Eilan
Eilan,
Thanks again for your generousity.
It has been nearly 10 years I wanted to resolve the problem of getting this book translated. Waiting longer is not an issue. I also went to Tarot Collector's Forum to post this request to get additional help to try to find an electronic copy in Italian or an English Translation. I have contacted others to see if they can help. I am still doing goggle searches and thinking what the easiest way to produce a user friendly electronic copy to submit to you.

If not I may have to scan the booklet which is nearly 180 pages. I am debating how I will scan this if this is the last resort. My scanner and free version of adobe acrobat may not be the best way. Also I may damage the book if I do this. The instruction book looks like 5 Little White Books were bounded by glue. The book may fall a part if I scan this.

Eilan said:
I've read the other thread, it's seems really odd that a publisher would publish a book in a language that no one can read, not even native italians, and tavaglione is not that old! I'm really curious now , can someone post a few lines in this mysterious language for me please?

The publisher Dal Negro has not been helpful. Another idea that comes to mind is there a way to contact Giorgio Tavaglione? Is he still alive? How old do you think he is? I wonder if he or his family would have an electronic copy of this booklet.

He produced 4 published decks. I wonder if he had any unpublished decks. I noticed his Enoil Gavat Tarot and Oracle of the Sibyl had instruction booklets by Stuart Kaplan that were skimpy in info, I wonder if he had written a more detailed booklet that was ignored for those 2 decks.
 

Lord Adonia

Cerulean said:
Tavaglione's intro is mysterious, but the description of his majors are less so. The keywords one looks for in an "Etteilla-influenced" or Papus variation deck are actually here.

Tarot of the Bohemians online, starting from the description of the Magician:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/tob/tob14.htm

I saw for the Magician description for the Tavaglione Stairs of Gold and Stella all the same keywords.

First Cause is an Etteilla keyword for it's card number one,

Adam, Osirius, Human, Man, Father...etc., Aleph, etc...Tavaglione includes Papus and Etteilla keywords in the descriptions for the majors.

Tavaglione's assignment of cards with astrology works with decanates, but I've not i compared them with Golden Dawn attributions.

If you had the Divinatory Tarot by Papus translated by Beryl Stockman, you'd have more information on Etteilla style card meanings that can help one also pick out recognizeable keywords in the Tavaglione Stella and Tavaglione Stairs of Gold.

Another good book to check out is the "Paul Christian" book of the Egyptian Tarots from Lo Scarabeo from Berti and Gonard; the description for the majors seem to include symbolism I would find referenced for the major arcana in the "Falconnier/Wegner" and the trumps in the Church of Light Egyptian style tarot. Some people who have a copy of the old Church of Light text describing the majors might find the keyword comparisons of the Kabbalah, alphabet, etc. similar to Tavaglione's word lists for the majors.


I am not in the mode to do much comparing or typing on Italian tarot texts, so just hoping these few notes would be helpful if you are trying to decipher or update your tarot information. The majors comparison with the free Tarot of Bohemians link and whatever you all come up with in terms of the minors is of interest--so will watch this thread.

Cerulean
Cerulean,
Thanks for showing an interest and providing research.
1) I plan to buy Divinatory Tarot by Papus translated by Beryl Stockman. I also own Tarot of the Bohemians by Papus. I woud assume these are two different works.

2)Do you know the actual name or have a link to purchase the book of the "Paul Christian" book of the Egyptian Tarots from Lo Scarabeo from Berti and Gonard? I own the History and Practice of Magic by Paul Christian.

3) The Tarocchi Delle Stelle is using the decan system described in Tarot of the Bohemians by Papus in chapter XVI on the astronomical tarot for the minor arcana. Paul Christian's attributions of the majors match the Major Arcana.The Golden Dawn System is not associated with this.

4) There are minor printing errors on the minor arcana the 8 of Cups should have the 8 red on the decan 1-9 wheel and the 9 of Wands should have the 9 red on the decan 1-9 wheel.
 

firecatpickles

Lord Adonia said:
3) The Tarocchi Delle Stelle is using the decan system describe in Tarot of the Bohemians by Papus in chapter XVI on the astronomical tarot for the minor arcana. Paul Christian's attributions of the majors match the Major Arcana.The Golden Dawn System is not associated with this.

4) There are minor printing errors on the minor arcana the 8 of Cups should have the 8 red on the decan 1-9 wheel and the 9 of Wands should have the 9 red on the decan 1-9 wheel.


Thanks for the info!
 

Eilan

Cerulean said:
Here's a small Italian excerpt:

I Tarocchi delle Stelle

Disserationzioni:

In cui si ivestiga belli loro asspetio delle loro celate qualita con descriptione delle figure, simboli, ad loro legami con il planeti con le stelle

Tra le piu antiche immagine-peniero, la Spirale e una delle piu profonde e misterose. Nella Spirale vi e il concetto del Lairinto, con la sua entrata e la sua uscita. Nel Labirinto, con la sua entrata e la sua uscita. Nel Labirinto vi e l'idea/senso della Vita, del"evoluzione individual e di tutta la Societa Umna. Dalle inciscioni megalitiche dei Celti a quelle dell'Africa Nera, dalle decorazioni Mayaa e Azteche a quelle Indu, Deva e Asura, sino all doppia spirale Cinese dello Yin-Yang, la Spirale ha expresso ed esprime l'esensione, lEmanazione, la sviluppo nella continuita, ciclica in una Rotazion Creativa. Qesta meravigliosa immagine Cosmica e simbolo del E'quilibrio nello squlibrio dell Ordine all 'interno del Cambiamento, della Mutaione. Nella Spirale logritmica si ha la permanenza della forma nonsante la crescita assimetrica...


I can assure you that this is plain modern Italian ;)
 

Cerulean

Ah, then it is the lack of understanding on the subject

on a positive note then.

I hope people were able to get the reprinted Stairs of Gold during the two years that it was recently available again at a reasonable cost...The images and keywords that Tavaglione noted in his 80 page booklet, that was very helpful. Unfortunately it has gone out of print again and one has to search for a good price.

So in revisiting the 2005 and older threads, as of 2011, the Giorgio Tavaglione decks felt less mysterious because of some better resources on the Etteilla tarot and Papus, plus for me, a bit of fun regarding the decanates of the Modiano 184.

Thanks for the discussion.

The book for the Lo Scarabeo Egyptian Tarot is harder for me to link to as there will be a kit with color picures in the book, kit with black book with black and white scans...and the book says The Egyptian Tarot ..by G. Berti. The new LS kit discussion:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=156462&highlight=lo+scarabeo+egyptian

Good luck on your project! Hope to hear more.

I am in my own way in a too-old-esoteric corner. But I can say when copying an old manual, say two pages to one 8×11 sheet, the Italian Tavaglione Stella/Porta Celeste manual isn't delicate or as worn as others that I've copied using a Fed-Ex Kinko's (Copier Service) machine. Yes, your glued binding may crack--but if my 1890 booklets can be deftly copied at a Fed ex kinkos copy center at three cents a page by hand, as I did, and it's done as two pages per sheet... then the cost is say 90 pages times three cents. Afterwards you can see if you want to get those 90 pages into a digital file, loaded on a memory stick or CD...this all took my attention for a few hours each day per document over a long weekend. I did that with two old Etteilla deck manuals...and 78 cards per deck, two decks.

Will be away for awhile, but hope to look at my Papus copies and Stairs of Gold..later..
 

Lord Adonia

Good News. I was able to scan the booklet in pdf(searchable) where the words can be copied over to a word or text file for a translating program and the illustrations are in tact. It took several hours and my eyes are aching from this task like a headache. I had to rest for two days to recover my eyes.

The bad news is the booklet had to be broken up into 6 different files: intro, major arcana,wands, cups, swords and pentacles. Combined the size of these files is 7.22 MB.

Eilan please let me know how I can send these files to you, if you still so bravely want to do the task of translating.

Dal Negro was very unhelpful in their customer service. They told me "frankly speaking,the text isn't worth translating because we sell this tarot quite only in Italy."

From experience Dal Negro and US Games have been unhelpful in inquiries; Lo Scarabeo has been outstanding.

I am also surprised no one else in the world had an electronic copy of this booklet in Italian or English.
 

Hemera

Oh, I´d very interested in an English translation of the booklet
as well!
I think it´s a bit odd that Dal Negro thinks this deck mainly sells in Italy. Don´t they ever come *here*? Or maybe they should ask Alida, amazon etc. where they ship decks. All over the world is my guess..

Here is an old thread where this deck and the instruction booklet were also discussed. It´s an old thread but there were some more people interested in the booklet.
Tarocchi Delle Stelle
 

Lord Adonia

I submitted all six parts to Eilan, I certainly think it will take some time before it will be translated.

Dal Negro did send me something through the mail. It was a copy the little white book of the Tarocco delle Vetrate since it had an English translation. A deck I already owned. They expected me to use this as a substitute and they do not seem familiar with their own products.

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/vetrate/

Examining the minor arcana, I noticed some of them like the 2 of Pentacles and 10 of Swords bear illustrated resemblance to Arthur Waite, but he adds variations. The more I look at these cards they are many hidden symbols that I cannot decipher. I enjoy the deck because its occult symbolism is outside the Golden Dawn and usual symbols applied in the English speaking world. I certainly like the comic book style art like Prince Valiant.

In the link below the Astrological Attributions - Major Arcana apply to the Tarocchi Delle Stelle. This is located at the bottom. Ignore all the Rulers of the Decans and Attributions of the Kings on this page, since they do not apply.

http://www.tarot.org.il/Paul_Christian.html
 

Hemera

Lord Adonia said:
I submitted all six parts to Eilan, I certainly think it will take some time before it will be translated.
I do think that if Eilan does such a big job she could ask for a small fee in return for the translated text. I´d certainly be willing to pay something..
Lord Adonia said:
The more I look at these cards they are many hidden symbols that I cannot decipher.
I usually just use my intuition and decipher them the way I want -or not at all.
I´m currently looking for a second copy of the deck so I could trim off the huge white borders. I don´t really like them and I find the cards too big to shuffle comfortably. I think the cards would become much more intense with some trimming..
Lord Adonia said:
I certainly like the comic book style art like Prince Valiant.
Oh yes, me too. :)