kwaw
Topic: Bodet, Vandenborre and general Belgian pattern?
I wasn't aware we had left it.
Not sure how that's relevant as I can't see where in the thread anyone has made any mention of Qabbalah?
I like to look at details too, for example of what relevance, if any, does the ace of hearts have? Does the popular (and banned in many places) game Ace of Hearts provide a trope from which we may draw an analogy? Or is it refering to 'plucking of the heart / rose' type figures of speech? Or to the juggler's promises to fulfill 'your heart's desire' being as worth as much, like the stock jobbers, as the paper it is printed on? Nothing but a house of cards to be blown over in the winds of fortune? Once he has what he wants of you, will we find it miraculously exchanged, as in the play quoted above, for a Knave of Clubs?
However, I also consider the social and cultural interests of the period in which the pattern appears, and of which it reflects, needs to be taken into account to provide a broad based but nonetheless delimited context in which 'iconographic details' are best understood.
The title of the thread is in reference to the Bodet, a marked characteristic of which along with other decks of the Belgian type is the fixed numerical placement of Le Fou at XXII.
In what other contexts may we see a beginning with a juggler and ending with folly and madness in the 18th century in which the Bodet and Vandenborre appear?
One comparison, as in the examples I have quoted and referenced above, is in the developement of satirical characterisations which had origins in the collapse of French, English and Dutch 'bubble' schemes and the boom in satirical and irreverent genre poems, plays (farces, sotties, pantomimes, et al) and cartoons that followed across Northern Europe post 1720 (often, as described above, re-working previous themes, many of which are reflected in the tarot, such as images of jugglers, folly and the ups and downs of fortune's wheel).
Reference to theatre of the time I consider to be very much in context, all the more so as the decks themselves allude to theatrical traditon by replacing the popesse with the miles gloriosa type character of the internationally successful comedia del'art (and specifically a character that achieved particular success in France).
Other socio-political events of the period that may possibly be reflected in the choice of the Spanish Captain is that of the Spanish Succession (c. 1714, not to far distant to the return from exile of the Comedia del' arte to Paris in 1716), and other events such as has been mentioned on another thread on the Belgian tarot pattern here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=69458
Kwaw
eugim said:Please Monsieurs et Madmoiselles...
Return to the deck topic please ! // Could we ?
I wasn't aware we had left it.
kwaw ... even I am not agree with you.(I m not close but never to Qabbalah).
Not sure how that's relevant as I can't see where in the thread anyone has made any mention of Qabbalah?
I know that each of us has his own prior belief but here we are I think to search iconographic details...
-I mean this this a new a wonderful (full) thread...
So why don t we be close to the topic ? / I mean we are talking about Belgian family born from Vieville deck,so for me that is the central point all about.
I like to look at details too, for example of what relevance, if any, does the ace of hearts have? Does the popular (and banned in many places) game Ace of Hearts provide a trope from which we may draw an analogy? Or is it refering to 'plucking of the heart / rose' type figures of speech? Or to the juggler's promises to fulfill 'your heart's desire' being as worth as much, like the stock jobbers, as the paper it is printed on? Nothing but a house of cards to be blown over in the winds of fortune? Once he has what he wants of you, will we find it miraculously exchanged, as in the play quoted above, for a Knave of Clubs?
However, I also consider the social and cultural interests of the period in which the pattern appears, and of which it reflects, needs to be taken into account to provide a broad based but nonetheless delimited context in which 'iconographic details' are best understood.
The title of the thread is in reference to the Bodet, a marked characteristic of which along with other decks of the Belgian type is the fixed numerical placement of Le Fou at XXII.
In what other contexts may we see a beginning with a juggler and ending with folly and madness in the 18th century in which the Bodet and Vandenborre appear?
One comparison, as in the examples I have quoted and referenced above, is in the developement of satirical characterisations which had origins in the collapse of French, English and Dutch 'bubble' schemes and the boom in satirical and irreverent genre poems, plays (farces, sotties, pantomimes, et al) and cartoons that followed across Northern Europe post 1720 (often, as described above, re-working previous themes, many of which are reflected in the tarot, such as images of jugglers, folly and the ups and downs of fortune's wheel).
Reference to theatre of the time I consider to be very much in context, all the more so as the decks themselves allude to theatrical traditon by replacing the popesse with the miles gloriosa type character of the internationally successful comedia del'art (and specifically a character that achieved particular success in France).
Other socio-political events of the period that may possibly be reflected in the choice of the Spanish Captain is that of the Spanish Succession (c. 1714, not to far distant to the return from exile of the Comedia del' arte to Paris in 1716), and other events such as has been mentioned on another thread on the Belgian tarot pattern here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=69458
Kwaw