Chart Reading: Step #2, Martha Stewart -- Sun by sign, house, aspects to ASC & MC.

Sun conj Pluto

Minderwiz wrote: "unless we treat a conjucntion with Pluto as a hard aspect"
How could Sun conj Pluto be considered bad? or hard does not mean bad?

doesn't that aspect show strength of character, and self confidence? and that intensifies the MC happening in the area?

Dave -just saw your latest post on this:
"mid-point deliniation for Pluto/MC = Sun: "
is this any different than, let's say:
Pluto=MC=Sun ?

ps:
astro.com:
for anyone interested, under:
Free Horoscopes: Extended Chart Selection:
under: house system (you can change the kind...), there are also chart kinds..

Conjunctions tend to be hard or soft depending on the planets involved. Conjunctions with Saturn or Mars may (and I stress may) be rather difficult to cope with.

Pluto may well signify intensity but do you really want to be intense all the time? I doubt Pluto actually provides strength of character (Pluto/Sun can be associated with an almost obsessive interest in Power) or for that matter self confidence (the latter is probably more connected to the personal planets).

So, we might argue that Pluto intensifies the display of creativity, etc and in a business context we might see this as a relevant characteristic. If Pluto bestows an intensity that has to have an outlet, otherwise it drives Martha up the wall, then it's a hard aspect. However this may be the driver that we are looking for - Career, through the intensified Sun is the outlet for the Pluto energy. We could amend the interpretation fairly easily to allow for Pluto as representing power or representing the hidden (buried) side of her identity - it might even suggest that she had a powerful father figure who dominated her early years. Even so all of these would provide sufficient drive to want to display her creativity through business.

Well, I seem to have made something of a case for the conjunction with Pluto being treated as a hard aspect. I'm not necessarily going to stick with this but I think it is worth considering.

Pluto conj sun does have a concern for power, but it could go the other way in that MS may have other powerful ppl attempting to dominate her, or having her submit. Certainly, there are many many ppl who resent her sort of perfectionism etc - which totally boiled over after the whole insider trading thing. Stocks in her company plumetted, and she was constantly being picked apart and made fun of by the media. I thought it was blown way out of proportion.

But Pluto conj sun may also lend its regenerative power.... w/sun also conj MC, we may see MS has the ability to rise up to the top of things even under great duress.

I tend to see Pluto (and Neptune and to a lesser exent Uranus) as having its influence at the mundane level - nations, countries, peoples rather than individuals - but it is likely that the conjunction with Pluto will have an effect.

As Isthmus says the influence might be other people - but I think if it is, it will be the father rather than any others.

If we see Pluto as Regenerative or Transformative (and I'm not necessarily convinced of that) then the Sun / Pluto conjunction may possibly be a little easier, though Regeneration is not necessarily an easy phase of life as Dr. Who regularly demonstrated

A question or two for Dave or Minderwiz:

The Moon reflects light. You said the Moon, as it didn’t have a planet in opposition to ‘ground’ it, could be seen as ‘weak’. Is this just because of its position (handle of bucket?)

Or could this also apply to the Sun, which radiates light, but also has no planet in opposition?

Mars is co-ruler of Scorpio the Asc. When does Pluto rule Scorpio, would it be in a nocturnal chart?

Thanks Gloria.

Reply to Gloria

In our preliminary review of the chart (based on balance and shape criteria) we had as objectives 1) the establishment of a basic foundation for our later analysis and 2) to determine which key criteria to use when starting our analysis.

Along those lines, these points were (or could be) established: Martha Stewart might be summarized as having a strong fire and fixed (Leo) type personality, and that her Moon symbology might have muted expression due to the lack of a opposition (expected in most bucket shape charts for focal/handle planets).

As we moved into this thread, Step #2, we have observed that the Sun is in Leo, it is conjunct the MC and Pluto (although we will go into aspects just a little later), and that Sun semi-squares Moon -- a pattern that apparently detracts from the bucket personality (where we expect the Moon to have a strong reflective role in the personality and public posturing). because that aspects sets up the need to manage adjustments and work at processes. Again, we'll get into this just a little later.

So, I used the term "weak" for the Moon relative to this chart. It is true in some respects but we can also view it as having to fill its role in some unexpected way. What ever that way is (when we do the fuller analysis) it is a key component for us to keep in mind. We are, afterall, just looking for an introduction to this chart and a few clues that will help us later find the core truth to the chart's potential expression.

I suspect that the strong sun, the fixed persistance of MS, the way the Moon is used, and the manner in which she works with others (no oppositions) will all be keys to better understanding her.

As far as Moon in Scorpio, I haven't looked at that yet -- that's for Step #3. I'm not sure about favoring Mars over Pluto or vice-versa relative to rulership of Scorpio -- I see elements of both planets in Scorpio's way of adding qualities to the planets that opperate from/through that sign.
Dave.

I suspect that the strong sun, the fixed persistance of MS, the way the Moon is used, and the manner in which she works with others (no oppositions) will all be keys to better understanding her.

Click to expand...

Yes I understand that Dave, didn't mean to go over old ground, just really to ask if same applied to Sun, but thanks you have answered my questions.
Gloria.

A general reply

I don't mind covering old ground or re-stating something. We all want to proceed at the same pace for this exercise in the belief that a methodical process (without excluding any unique and/or individual applications) can help us to better achieve a chart analysis that is insightful and instructive for both us (as astrologers) and our friends and clients (or study subjects).

If I don't see any further questions or discussion by the end of the day (hear in New England, +5:00 gmt) I'll start the next thread, "Chart Reading: Step #3, Martha Stewart -- Moon by sign, house and relationship to the ASC and MC angles."

I will be taking Boy Scouts to a Jamboree, a gathering of some 9,000 scouts for the next three days, so I'll have to start the next thread or have Minderwiz release it if there are more questions and/or issues to clarify. Then, I expect we'll be ready to get into the fun stuff -- Sun and Moon combinations (male-female, active-passive, initiating-responding, etc.) along with sign/house interactions, relative strengths, aspects and their meanings, how it all plays out relative to chart shaping and quality/element meanings. I would expect a lot of discussion and posting for that step. If you get through the Moon stuff before I get back on Monday afternoon, I expect Minderwiz will pull the trigger on Step #4. It will be fun. Dave.

Best of luck (and fun) with the jamboree Dave!!!!!!!!!!


If your not back on Monday afternoon I'll organise some search parties

On Gloria's point about strong Sun and Weak Moon, I think Dave put it well. On the examination up to now the Moon apprears to be in a weaker position than the Sun and I think the next step will confirm this.

On the rulership of Scorpio. again I think that is an issue which we can look at in the next stage when we make some consideration of the Ascendant as well as the Moon.

Many Astrologers would treat the Ascendant as one of the top 3 features of the chart along with Sun and Moon. I must admit that's the way that I've proceded in the past - I'm beginning to give more weight to the Ascendant ruler so I'm rather like Dave and Scorpio and a bit undecided there. On the Scorpio issue I definitely know where I stand.

Just a query on how we are going to proceed.

We're concentrating our relationships onto Sun, Moon, Ascendant and MC. In this chart that is by no means an unreasonable way forward - and many Astrologers tend to rank the Ascendant up with the Sun and Moon in terms of interpretation.

I've drawn attention to the Trine to the Ascendant ruler, Mars, the Conjunction with Pluto and the sextile to Jupiter, (which might have business implications). These may be developed later on as we meet Mars and Jupiter but clearly the trine to Mars is important for the Ascendant.

There are several minor aspects which I've not commented on and don't really wish to at this stage - they are best dealt with when we look at the other planets. I'm not madly into minor aspects but I don't want to shut these off from the discussions as we go - some contributors might wish to look at them in more detail.

So can I suggest that for this thread and the next we leave out any further aspect discussion other than those relating to the Ascendant and MC and their rulers. By all means put down a marker for future discussion if you feel that another aspect is in need of discussion but otherwise I think we may begin rambling a bit