Where do you start?

Let me start by saying the ideas and opinions I'm expressing are intended to foster conversation and are not intended as criticism.

I'd like you also to have a look at this thread which approaches the question of what tarot is. I think its important to know what a tarot deck is before we set out to create one. I also think you can learn tarot as you create your deck but perhaps that's a topic for another thread. There is no doubt that different people will have different ideas about what tarot is.

Assuredly the tarot is a deck of cards, but not all decks of cards are tarot. Some of us here have created or are creating decks of cards that are not tarot - not to say that there is anything wrong with that. But it does beg the question how we, as tarot deck creators can be sure we are creating a tarot deck.

So, what I'd be interested in hearing about is where you start. Do you use a particular deck as a model? Many deck creators use the Rider Waite Smith deck as a starting point, some use the Crowley/Harris Thoth, a few use the Marseilles and still others use a combination of different decks as models for their own creation. When I started Major Tom's Tarot I used the BOTA deck. As I've gone along I've added a lot of influences. Even now, before I've completed it, I'm wondering if I'm using the right model.

How do we know whether we're creating a tarot deck or not?

How do we know? Um, I suppose that it stands on two legs. The first is the intention of the creator, no matter how much or how little knowledge he/she has of the Tarot. The second is the acceptance of the audience - and given the disparate opinions in that thread, your guess is as good as mine. So that leg is going to be a weak one.

A drawing by Picasso may not bear any immediate resemblance to the way we're used to seeing the object/person he used as a model, but who's going to quibble that a woman drawn by him isn't a woman? She's simply a Picasso woman, rather than the ordinary normal kind.

If your question is "what is acceptable to the buying public as a Tarot Deck", then that's a whole different can of worms, and the only way you can tell is after the fact - did it sell as a Tarot Deck, or not?

In a deck I would buy, I want archetypes and images that stimulate my intuitive insights and connect to the traditional history of tarot.

In a deck I would make for personal exploration and learning (art as self discovery more than as "statement), I'd had the idea mentioned in "Tarot Decks, baby tarot?" of using family photos over the years--myself as the fool (could be at many stages of life!) and finding family/friends who fit the archetypes. It could be a mix of memoir and celebration.

I would call such a deck a "tarot interpretation"--immense personal meaning, but not necessarily offering insight for a stranger's use.

My art media has always been fiber/fabric or stained glass--but hey, those glass panels would sure be hard to shuffle!

I suppose if it's based on existing, no quibble about it tarot decks, and doesn't stray too far from the accepted interpretations of those cards, it would be called tarot. Go outside that & you've got a derivitive work that might be tarot or might be more accurately described as an oracle deck.

Marseilles, Thoth & Rider Waite....I wonder what happens when the next great step forward gives us a fourth 'standard' tarot that others can derive works off of? Would we recognise it when it comes out? I mean, it's been done three times already, there's nothing that says ONLY these three types are going to be the standard tarot decks in the development of tarot history.

HudsonGray said:

I I mean, it's been done three times already, there's nothing that says ONLY these three types are going to be the standard tarot decks in the development of tarot history.

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I think a new Tarot type can only arise from a completely different esoteric tradition. And I don't see anything like that arising at the moment.

All our new "traditions" are just re-discoveries or sometimes even re-hashes of old ones.

But one day..... something will surely emerge. Probably not in our lifetime.

The "standard" decks are products of their time and place, just like any of their derivatives. I think there is a gap that Thoth, RWS, and the Marseilles decks are not filling, but it is/will be filled by a handful of innovative, attractive, readable decks, not a single one, since tarot is now used in many and diverse ways.

When I started designing my deck, I didn't pick a single deck as a model. The RWS was my first deck but I no longer use it; Thoth is my main reading deck. I wanted my own deck to emphasize the four elements and numeralogy in the minors, and I like the Golden Dawn courts with their two-element attributions. My Strength is VIII and Justice is XI because they fit the deck theme better this way.

So...is the Ironwing Tarot REALLY Tarot, or is it an oracle or a "not-quite-Tarot" deck? To me it is definitely Tarot. Considering its limited appeal, I assume that the people who buy it will answer this question for themselves. If they like it and find it useful, that's enough for me.

Lorena

Ironwing Tarot
http://www.mineralarts.com/artwork/artwork.html

Astra said:

How do we know? Um, I suppose that it stands on two legs. The first is the intention of the creator, no matter how much or how little knowledge he/she has of the Tarot.

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I'm not sure I understand your meaning. Do you mean it's a tarot deck if the creator intends it to be a tarot deck, whether there's any knowledge of tarot or not?

HudsonGray said:

Go outside that & you've got a derivitive work that might be tarot or might be more accurately described as an oracle deck.

I mean, it's been done three times already, there's nothing that says ONLY these three types are going to be the standard tarot decks in the development of tarot history.

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Yes! There is an essence to tarot, I firmly believe there's a reason why they were put together the way they are that's more important than any individual consideration.

As to a fourth standard, there have already been more than three. There are other standards that have fallen by the wayside. Consider the Etteilla and Minchate decks neither one of which are today considered tarot. They do have their own validity of course.

If we consider tarot as a structure it leaves unlimited room for Oracle decks to expand.

Ironwing said:

So...is the Ironwing Tarot REALLY Tarot, or is it an oracle or a "not-quite-Tarot" deck? To me it is definitely Tarot. Considering its limited appeal, I assume that the people who buy it will answer this question for themselves. If they like it and find it useful, that's enough for me.

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Lorena I really like your work. It shows an excellent knowledge of tarot. Its a tarot because you intend it to be and because you call it tarot.

I think people will buy it. I think I might call it Advanced Postmodern Tarot. I don't think I'd recommend it for a beginner. You've got some advanced images there.

Are you saying Major Tom, that to validate a deck as tarot cards, they must be a copy of a certain deck?