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The Queen of Cups' Cup

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The Queen of Cups' Cup


Apologies if this has already been discussed--I'm sloppy with looking for old threads, haha.

I've always been fascinated by the ornate cup the Queen of Cups holds in Waite's deck. Does anyone have any facts/opinions relevant to why her cup is so different than the rest depicted in the suit? My own opinion is that the cup clues in to the psychic/intuitive side of her card, and that the cup may be representational of an ornate scrying device? The cup and the liquid she gazes into? The way she's staring at the cup so intently would seem to reccomend this idea...but what are your thoughts?
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An odd, slightly delirious discussion on this topic.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=81294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jourdain
I've always been fascinated by the ornate cup the Queen of Cups holds in Waite's deck. Does anyone have any facts/opinions relevant to why her cup is so different than the rest depicted in the suit?
I must say that I have never found a satisfactory answer to this. Those strange arms with the little black angels, the signs on the edge of the cup, the red jewel in the middle; all very puzzling.

This is the only closed cup pictured in the suit, which is at odds with the GD (and Crowley's) rendition of the card. The other cups in the suit, with the exception of the Ace, are recognisable as GD artifacts.

The cup is a symbol associated with Binah, which is the Sephira where the Queens reside. The cup is also, rather obviously, a symbol of water. Perhaps Waite or Smith thought that the Queen who symbolises Water of Water, needs a more ornate cup than the rest of the suit.

There is also the question of the cherub holding a fish, striking an almost Magician-like pose on the side of the Queens throne.




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I've thought about the water/water angle before, too, Berbatov. It seems like a plausible theory to me. The closed lid seems indicative of a general esoteric atmosphere, as well. The "veiled" vibes seem heavy. I like my scrying theory a lot, but the fact that the cup is closed is at odds with that--the queen would most likely be utilizing hydromancy if scrying was the case, and she obviously can't see the water if the chalice is closed. So what is there to make of her intense gaze? Perhaps so many contradictions in one symbol is symbolic in and of itself? The fact that the lid of the cup is at odds with Golden Dawn's precedent for the card is another facet of the mystery to me.
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If this helps I found this little bit about the Queen's cup in Robert M. Place's book Tarot, History, Symbolism and Divination - what he has to say makes sense to me as it aligns with the characteristic quality of the Queen.

Quote:
The Queen's elaborate Gothic chalice has angels flanking it and a lid with a cross on top. These elements identify it as a symbol of the sacred center. The Queen knows that the center is in herself. She does not open the cup. The Queen knows that it will open on its own, like an egg, when the time is right. Meanwhile,she is psychically in tune with its contents.
I have also read that the winged angels represent a link to the spiritual aspect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berbatov
the red jewel in the middle
I have looked at my Original Rider Waite card and for the life of me I cannot see a red jewel in the middle - were you using one of the other RW decks? I see it on the Radiant Rider Waite card but that deck is Recoloured by Virginijus Poshkus and not Pixie Smith's original which Waite wrote about I think. The Radiant was reissued in collaboration with Miss Sybil Waite & Rider & Co. London.



What this Queen is about is remaining open to energy of the unconscious and because she has an understanding of this power within her, she is able to react in an emotionally compassionate way, not just to herself but to the world in general. By being in tune with her inner feelings and her intuition she is able to translate her dreams into a reality. This quality she has also makes her very empathic to those around her.

Waite wrote of her
Quote:
Beautiful, fair, dreamy- as one who sees visions in a cup.
The cup then is the obvious link to the water element which is represented by emotions, feelings, intuition and can give depth to her creativity. The Queen does not have to actually look into the cup, she is already in tune with its contents, and knows that at the appropriate time they will be revealed to her so her cup is a kind of focus if you like in order to get in touch with that deeper part of herself.

We need to remember here that the energy from the water element is a passive feminine one that lends towards nurturing one's ideas.

So this Queen is the Feminine head of the suit and although water is a shifting and changing emotion the Queen is Queen because she has assimilated the message of her suit and has a degree of understanding now of her own emotional depths. She is a Queen that is not only sensitive but creative as well!

Long Live The Queen


Just some of my thoughts on this Lady

~HoneyBea~
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To answer your question, Honeybea, I'm using the Original Rider Waite that replaces the blues with seafoam greens, etc. In this format the Queen's cup does not have the red jewel in the center, but a black stone.

As for your interpretation, that last bit from Waite's book, about "seeing visions in a cup" jumped out at me earlier today when I re-read the snippet on the Queen of Cups, and I think it slightly reinforces this scrying idea I'm beginning to beat like a dead horse, haha

Thanks for the input.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jourdain
.

As for your interpretation, that last bit from Waite's book, about "seeing visions in a cup" jumped out at me earlier today when I re-read the snippet on the Queen of Cups, and I think it slightly reinforces this scrying idea I'm beginning to beat like a dead horse, haha

Thanks for the input.

LOL
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The red jewel in the middle


I no longer have the original image, but here is a scan from the Giant Rider.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.p...70&postcount=7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta
I no longer have the original image, but here is a scan from the Giant Rider.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.p...70&postcount=7
That's interesting, but its not on my original Rider Waite, I notice too that your throne side is coloured different too. Is the giant a reprint with re colouring?

I just found the review for this deck where it says This is a differently-coloured version to the Original Rider-Waite Tarot.

Answered my own questions LOL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBea
I have looked at my Original Rider Waite card and for the life of me I cannot see a red jewel in the middle - were you using one of the other RW decks?
It seems fairly clear here;
http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/pkt/img/cuqu.jpg

Holley Voley says this is from a 1909 deck, but who knows what colour it was when PCS painted it.


Berb
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